Florida High Speed Rail - The Progressive Way

[yapp1850]

i bet reason the state change plans was  it will profit if it disney, airport,  csx plan it will loose money ever year,  state will have come up with the differnce but  the state  does not want to pay passenger rail  cost  every year like  other states

[thelakelander]

Seriously doubt it will profit in the middle of I-4 or along the CSX ROW.  Disney also has not indicated that they would remove their direct bus connection between their property and the airport as well.  As long as that system remains in place (competition wise, it makes sense for Disney to keep it), its not a good idea to count on Disney for significant ridership.

[yapp1850]

the reason state pick i-4 over csx is  too many on inpact local  business through  lakeland, auburndale ,haines city.

[thelakelander]

The state picked I-4 because the ROW was free.  It had nothing to do with community impacts.  The cities would have been better off with reliable intercity rail that actually connected their downtowns together. Now most will get completely bypassed.

[Ocklawaha]

If ANYONE thinks they can profit from passenger in the USA I've got a bridge to sell them...the economics are just not there for any passenger transport (highway-air-water-rail) to profit without massive infusions of cash at the government level. The danger here is the pie-in-the-sky numbers dreaming the State has engaged in with the media and the public, so when it fails to meet expectations its going to bring down the HSR house. Seems like every week for several years HSR cheerleaders such as Faye, have rolled out another high profile "celebrity expert" to tell us how great its going to be. I'm hoping if we get NOTHING else from Rick Scott, that we get this thing re-re-reconsidered, its just a terrible bad plan.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

the reason state pick i-4 over csx is  too many on inpact local  business through  lakeland, auburndale ,haines city.

that was a significant part of the decision on what the Locally Preferred Alternative (LPA) should be.

I recommend that folks interested in the I-4 vs. CSX issue should read the environmental documents (FEIS)...they can be found here...

http://flhsr.squarespace.com/reports/

[yapp1850]

do you think we can do high speed rail and  csx type train

[thelakelander]

Unless I overlooked it, the study did not seriously consider using conventional passenger rail technology.  Forget about getting up to 120mph and look at reliable intercity rail by upgrading existing Amtrak service to corridor status.  Just considering it would make the FEIS null and void since it was never truly evaluated in the first place.

[thelakelander]

do you think we can do high speed rail and  csx type train

My question would be...why? How did we come to the conclusion that this state can't effectively be served with a better investment in conventional rail service?  When did it become HSR or bust?

[tufsu1]

Unless I overlooked it, the study did not seriously consider using conventional passenger rail technology.

The direction from the beginning was that the train had to be able to reach speeds of 120mph, which can be done with the current Amtrak Acela train....but as noted in the study, the CSX route was discarded because of community impacts in Hillsborough and Polk counties.

[thelakelander]

Sort of like there's already a desired answer but throwing a few other modes out there to attempt to indicate that several options were seriously evaluated?

[tufsu1]

Sort of like there's already a desired answer but throwing a few other modes out there to attempt to indicate that several options were seriously evaluated?

that is how the game works

[thelakelander]

I figured that.  Unfortunately, we can shoot ourselves in the foot by eliminating alternative options too early in the process.

[Ocklawaha]

So like the Skyway, and like BRT, some know-nothing that got caught up in the glitter and zip of a high speed train someplace, decided for us it would be HSR or NOTHING.

DAMN REALITY! FULL SPEED AHEAD!

Any attempt to say we can't do HSR and Freight together ignores how the European High Speed Trains get into and out of downtown in many big cities. They do it and so could we. The idea that I-4 will be a way to prevent sprawl (as Faye and the HSR team constantly say) when there is NOTHING around I-4 today, and thus the only development there will be SPRAWL, is just another example of our own:

"Streetcars are slow and MUST compete with automobiles in the streets and thus the Skyway is superior technology in every way..."  (JTA lead planner)

This is Florida double speak and to shut us all up, we'll parade a endless line of high profile fools before the public and tell them how blessed they are that our consultant's are working so hard for the right thing. I wouldn't touch this project for any amount of money unless they purposed my team with a complete reevaluation.

OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

Yup, Sir Richard Branson is a know-nothing according to Ock.

Wow, this know-nothing did this?

Branson has experience in trains. Virgin Trains is the fastest growing rail company in Britain. It’s grown from 14 million customers to more than 28 million customers in just the last six years.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kymmcnicholas/2010/11/16/richard-branson-from-rockets-to-high-speed-trains/?boxes=Homepagechannels

Hmmm, I wonder who that know-nothing is now?

http://video.forbes.com/fvn/business/richard-branson-the-virgin-group-invests-in-florida-high-speed-railways