Another major company abandoning Downtown for the Southside.

[thelakelander]

^On the surface that may be true.  However, its a serious problem if Company A that can operate anywhere (burbs or DT) with no problem.  At that point, why would Company A pay more to reserve +100 dedicated spaces in a DT garage when they can head out to the Southside and park in a surface lots with no extra expense?  The same can be said in any city but that dynamic changes when you're in a quality urban environment where people want to be.  In Jax, we're just not there and appear to be going backwards.  As I said in another thread, the parking issue is much more complicated than most would imagine.  Plus, its only one of many things that must be addressed before DT can ultimately be successful.

especially when the Southside office district is much more convenient for all those workers driving in from St. Johns County and Mandarin....the truth is downtown offices will continue to struggle until such time as there are more incentives to being down there....and chief among them is having a workforce that lives nearby!

With this said, I believe the focus of downtown may need to change.  Maybe it should be a priority to attract places that when they bloom, they don't relocate because of the amount of investment spent in their facilities?  Think medical, education, cultural, government, maritime.  Here, one would be looking at established mainstays like the local/federal/state governments, Baptist Health, Shands, FSCJ, Maxwell Coffee, North Florida Shipyards, etc. as economic anchors.  These are places that most likely won't be going anywhere anytime soon.  Build a close knit urban community that is attractive for their employees, students of customers instead of worrying about what the burbs are doing.  Accept those as your major economic anchors and build around them through aggressively recruiting of complementing businesses.

[johnny_simpatico]

Lakelander has a good point.  Jacksonville really blew it years ago when it took the developer's bait and put UNF out in the the swampland.  The remains remains largely disconnected from the rest of the city.  I pity the poor students stuck out there without cars and with pathetically minimal bus service.

Someone earlier made the excellent point about Savannah flourishing in part because of SCAD.  Now that UNF's great art department has a toehold downtown in MOCA, the school should consider moving its entire art department downtown.  UNF already teaches some courses there.  (I've talked with some adjunct faculty who refuse to trek out to the main UNF facility.)  There obviously is plenty of cheap available space downtown, and the freed-up space out in UNF's remote campus could be redeployed to another department, avoiding more construction expense down the road. 

Of course, having all this activity downtown would require improved transportation to UNF, which could be provided by UNF's private shuttles or by JTA. Bingo!

[Singejoufflue]

The SCAD-style suggestion is spot on.  Bringing in young, discretionary income spending art kids will give DT the flavor it seems to be lacking.  This has been true in cities like Chicago and New York who are investing heavily in the very lucrative private student housing market.  A 7-11 (or whatever chain we have here, Kangaroo?) would make money hand over fist as will small eateries like Subway, etc.  Having a base floor of retail with high-end student residences in the upper floors, not to mention classroom space? Let's make it happen.

[thelakelander]

No school is going to invest heavily in downtown without some incentives.  We also just let two potential targets (Florida Coastal School of Law & the Art Institute of Jax) open campuses on the Southside in the last couple of years.  Maybe it's time to throw some money/tax breaks at them to relocate to downtown?  It worked for Charlotte (Johnson & Wales) and Orlando (UCF & FAMU Law).  Considering the number of DT companies relocating to the Southside because of financial reasons, a switch-a-roo must be possible.

[Singejoufflue]

Chicago issued an RFP for a 1/2 city block surface lot at State and Congress, sold the property for a buck, and now  they have an 18-story private student housing facility housing 4 schools.  In the summer they offer long-term conference/convention housing and year-round meeting space.  This building is a cash cow.  But it wouldn't have gotten off the ground if the City hadn't recognized the value of having an impressive anchor, developing the Loop education corridor, adding retail establishments, etc. etc. etc. 

Empty lots languishing, or moving forward on great development opportunities?  Gee Jax...what to do?

[Jerry Moran]

Chicago issued an RFP for a 1/2 city block surface lot at State and Congress, sold the property for a buck, and now  they have an 18-story private student housing facility housing 4 schools.

Vestcor offered to develop the Old Main Library at no cost to the City provided the City gave them the property.  Atkins, Peterbrook, and now Cesery Properties, and the building has not changed much.  I think we would have at least been freed of the monstrosity, and likely have now a beautiful glass and steel apartment building, had Vestcor, a proven performer, been awarded the property way back when.

No criticism of Atkins.  I hear the City was so far up their butt after the Shipyard Debacle, that Atkins got cold feet about dealing with the City, and bailed.  I am excited about Atkin's Barnett Building / Trio project, though.  Hope they get going soon.

[johnny_simpatico]

...well we don't have a "beautiful glass and steel apartment building."  (Is there such a thing in Jacksonville?)  But we do have the former Haydon Burns Library on seemingly perpetual hold status.  The city should never had sold it for peanuts, but given the lack of any visible progress, perhaps owner Cesery should throw in the towel and sell it to an educational institution.  Not a bad location for UNF's art program, for example.  Another satellite campus for SCAD?

[Noone]

I was Downtown yesterday and I'm always concerned about the parking. I'm not Downtown often but I do find it frustrating and stressful. For example I'm on Bay st. near the Landing and find a 1 hour meter. This is around 4-5pm. Fine.

I leave that spot and I'm wanting to check out the new steel tip dart boards at Northstar Subs (hope I got that name right) I know my priorities! They are also on Bay st. I drive around the block twice. Finally get a spot. I pull in to a 30 minute meter. I commit to the spot. Go in and I'm thinking a 30 minute meter in front of a restaurant.

I go in and obviously I was there more than 30 minutes because I walk out and its expired and luckily no ticket.

But getting back to the thread and businesses leaving. I remember members of Met Jax meeting at then Boomtown with then city councilwoman Jenkins and now mayoral candidate Jim Bailey. Parking meters were the issue. Can anyone comment on how that issue moved forward.

Also, can anyone comment on the taxpayer subsidized parking garages Downtown. How many do we have? Is it working? Do we need more?  or is it. What were we thinking. Just asking.      

[vicupstate]

There are three  garages that are guaranteed an 8% profit.  One by the new courthouse, and two by the coliseum/ballpark. The subsidy is far more than what was anticipated originally.  Part of the reason is the courthouse is only now being built after a long delay. 

It was an 'unusual' deal to say the least.  It involved some very promenient and politically connected individuals.  The city claims it was spared the expense of building these garages itself and can collect property taxes on them.  Of course, the city in effect pays those taxes to itself, if a profit is not made (which is what is happening).     

The city looked at installed the 'modern' meters  that other cities have ( accepts cards, etc.), but cancelled those plans.  If memory serves, it would have cost less than a lot of the 'studies' the city pays for without the blink of an eye.

[CS Foltz]

City is concerned , really,about lip service towards saving money..........supposedly............but here we go with another study being done! Fourth Floor probably has a room chock full of studies done in the past just sitting in the dust filled cabinets and yet we have to pay for another study to be done! That old information is no good since so much time has passed.....over a year, so we go pay for another study! Well I think we should do a study about the studies I guess the right people did not get their cut, so the taxpayer just gets to pick up the tab.........like usual!

[tufsu1]

I go in and obviously I was there more than 30 minutes because I walk out and its expired and luckily no ticket.

that's because the meter maids go home....while the meters aren't officially free until 6pm, you are pretty much assured of no ticket afte 5pm

[urbanlibertarian]

IMO any private developer who is willing to build on a vacant lot or surface parking in the core should be given some temporary tax forgiveness and a LOT more freedom in deciding what to build and how to build it.

[ChriswUfGator]

Jacksonville desperately needs the equivalent of Savannah College of Art and Design, combined with a bestseller (along the lines of Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil) that will draw tourists to our historic districts.

COJ already ran off a med school, a law school, and an arts college from locating downtown.

And that's just in the last 5 years...

Wonder what they are planning to do with all the abandoned buildings? Make them into more empty garages?

[ChriswUfGator]

Also, I see people in this thread are confusing the issue. There are something less than 7k workers left downtown now, and around 35k parking spaces. That means every single worker would have to find a way to bring 5 different cars with them every single day before we'd use up our available parking downtown, let alone have a shortage.

The issue is that COJ ruthlessly enforces asinine policies that hassles and nickel & dimes anyone who goes down there. The meters don't give you enough time to grab lunch, let alone attend a meeting, and the parking nazis are always standing by waiting to issue a BS ticket. This prevents many people from coming down there at all. It also means corporate folks are forced into the arms of the parking lot owners at exorbitant rates.

It's all an orchestrated scheme to overcharge for a commodity for which there is an oversupply and no real demand. In short, an orchestrated market. Corporations aren't dumb, they know what's up, and almost every single one has now decided to forgo paying the cartel and has bailed for the suburbs. And despite Tufsu pointing out every other possible reason, the truth is that all of them have cited the asinine parking situation as the major reason.

Paid parking should be eliminated entirely. The city doesn't make money on it (costs more to maintain the meters and pay the meter maids than it brings in, which again tells you there's no demand), and it has killed virtually all economic activity in the urban core. The 11E starbucks used to be hilarious, watching people circle trying to decide between paying $9 to go in the garage or risk a $15 ticket just to get a $3 latte. No wonder they closed, like everything else.

[Singejoufflue]

Eliminating the convenience parking (short-term meters) in favor of a parking free-for-all doesn't help small businesses downtown either.  If employees won't walk a few blocks (REASONABLE) from a parking garage for an 8-hour day, you think someone running into a Starbucks will?  The last garage I parked at was across from Modis and I got validation.  However, it took an Act of Congress to find a spot at 11am and the first spot I found couldn't fit my Yaris because 2 SUVs were on either side.  Top floor parking.  Even if it was free in the future I wouldn't do that to run into a coffeshop, bookstore, jewelry store, barber shop, or any other business you want me to patronize. 

Several people have complained about being ticketed for running over their meter. Um, yeah. It's a time limit.  If you can't guarantee you will be back in 2 hours (1 hour, 30 minutes, whatever the meter indicates) then don't park on the street.  It's not meant for long-term parking.  If you think it reasonable to go to an hour-long meeting that usually runs over, plus chatting and the walk to/from the office with a 2-hour limit - enjoy your fine.