Another major company abandoning Downtown for the Southside.

[thelakelander]

However, its not a DT Jax rates vs. other city's DT rates.  It's a DT Jax rate vs Suburban Jax rate and quality of life issue at hand.  As long as DT is not a real priority of this community things won't remain the same....they'll get worse.  Btw, it won't be a real priority until this city takes that same road as a place like Charlotte or Greenville and actually makes an effort (especially financial) to level the playing field with the burbs, coordinate significant development and public infrastructure projects in the core to create features people expect in an urban scene.

[thelakelander]

Yes it does.  If we look at those cities with vibrant cores and sprawling burbs, we'll find that they all invest significantly in those cores to make them worth living and spending time in.  They tend to find a way to get things done instead of making excuses about everything being too expensive or discounting people's opinions, (many of who took a risk and lost their shirts) about things that need to be addressed.

[urbaknight]

Instead of having yet another abandoned building, it should converted into residential units. 

[thelakelander]

Who's going to pay for the conversions?  How many people would purchase to live in the current dead environment?  Right now there's no market or money.  To jump start anything, some major incentives and tax breaks are going to have to be considered along with a vision to sell people on.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Instead of having yet another abandoned building, it should converted into residential units. 

I think this is the ultimate fate of the sky scrapers, and the sooner we realize this, the better.

The internet has made the corporate office building as we presently think of them a thing of the past.

Observation decks and something like the Skyline Cafe in the Barnett building also make for attractive adaptive reuses, at least for certain floors.

I wonder how strong a sell residential units are going to be downtown if businesses keep relocating away from there.  Can't walk to work if the company moved to the southside.

[simms3]

I think this is the ultimate fate of the sky scrapers, and the sooner we realize this, the better.

The internet has made the corporate office building as we presently think of them a thing of the past.

You would be surprised how untrue this actually is.  Corporations will always need good office space.  So will attorneys and most other professions that currently use office space.  Telecommuting and working from home are not what they are made out to be by the media.  A bunch of grad students at my school did some work with CBRE and 30 different corporations looking into this very thing, and while the aspects of office space are changing and trends in employment, real estate, etc are very dynamic, the need for physical buildings has not gone away nor will it ever go away.

One of the best RE niches right now is Class A Core and Core Plus office space in tight CBD markets.  The demand is increasing, cap rates are falling or staying steady, and vacancies are low.  Of course Jacksonville is a small market with one or two core plus buildings and the rest are value added or opportunistic, but in markets like Boston, DC, NYC, Chicago, Houston, SF, Seattle, etc the need for more prime corporate office space is ever increasing even in today's market.

The trends that are really changing are how the office space is and work hours.  More people are working flex hours and more office space is open, collaborative, and of course built with energy efficiency in mind.  Older office space depended on what era it was built out but usually cubes in the middle and closed off offices on the exterior, or closed off offices with a reception and board room.  Individual office spaces are starting to take on characteristics of entire CBDs, where the point is to encourage collaboration, the spread of ideas, transparency, and convenience, as well as sustainability.  None of this happens as efficiently or as effectively in the suburbs which is why downtowns will always serve a purpose and why physical office space will serve a purpose.

One of the major tech firms has developed an office concept of space that morphs and takes on different characteristics in order to serve different people within the company and different purposes.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Stephen, what is the earlier redefinition of the skyscraper to which you're referring?

[Wacca Pilatka]

I follow you.  Thanks.

[simms3]

Stephen I am sorry but all my personal research, all of the research conducted in my classes at my school and in conjunction with Emory and a few companies, analysts that worked for Marcus (where I interned once), analysts at CB and Cushman, corporate RE departments, Amex (they are a leader in this actually), ULI, etc point to that analysis being very faulty.

Sure buildings evolve and usage of space changes (mixed use has continued to become more and more prevalent), but skyscrapers with office space will never fall by the wayside.  At least not in our lifetime.

I think it's just a popular thing for people who really don't know to say that nobody will be using office space in a matter of time because more people are working from home or from the hotel or from the car and the internet makes an office pointless.  Just as a downtown serves important functions that can't be replicated in the suburbs corporate office space serves important functions that can't be replicated elsewhere.  Also, the trend is for more collaboration and transparency, which can only happen in an open and flexible office space...not at home and not in closed off offices.

[CS Foltz]

Video conferencing and the like can only go so far! At some point there is a need for a face to face and that requires ..........office space somewhere. Any company can be run out of a home (one man style) but at some point more than one person requires more than a home. Most business plans involve a business and to appeal to most working people or a specialty person,  does not make using the back of a pickup truck business like! Business plans need to be changed to todays economic conditions and evolve from there!

[thelakelander]

There will always be a need for office space.  Technology is great but there is something to be said about the power of face-to-face interaction.  However, if we're talking about DT Jax, there's less of a need to pay more for office space in a hostile environment when hassle free cheaper space in a better surrounding atmosphere is right across the river.

[stjr]

LOL, I have just skimmed the past 185 posts on this thread and I have seen nary a post about the use of mass transit to alleviate the importance of the parking issue regarding the urban core.

It seems to me that most office workers would not need DT parking if they had alternative ways of moving about the urban core and between the urban core and their suburban homes.  I would suggest that the parking issues combined with a terrible transit system combine to isolate downtown from the rest of the area contributing to its woes.

Of course, all this is magnified by the many other deficiencies emanating from the urban core, from a lack of amenities (too many to list here - see other MJ threads) to serve potential residents to poorly developed or totally lacking engaging street facings.

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

stjr, you have a valid point (and i don't know why i didn't think ov it, considering how long i relied on JTA), but it's not so much the actual terribleness ov the transit system as it is the perceived terribleness ov it.  while the skyway's an unfunny joke and the bus system leaves a lot to be desired, i've heard more people give perceived safety and comfort issues as reasons for not taking the bus than lack ov convenient stops and schedules--a lot ov people (especially office types) have gotten the idea in their heads that public transportation is for low-class, potentially dangerous people--for what it's worth, i've never had any problems with safety or comfort on JTA buses.

[Singejoufflue]

AMEN, Kuroi!