Another major company abandoning Downtown for the Southside.

[thelakelander]

^On the surface that may be true.  However, its a serious problem if Company A that can operate anywhere (burbs or DT) with no problem.  At that point, why would Company A pay more to reserve +100 dedicated spaces in a DT garage when they can head out to the Southside and park in a surface lots with no extra expense?  The same can be said in any city but that dynamic changes when you're in a quality urban environment where people want to be.  In Jax, we're just not there and appear to be going backwards.  As I said in another thread, the parking issue is much more complicated than most would imagine.  Plus, its only one of many things that must be addressed before DT can ultimately be successful.

[BridgeTroll]

its a serious problem if Company A that can operate anywhere (burbs or DT) with no problem.  At that point, why would Company A pay more to reserve +100 dedicated spaces in a DT garage when they can head out to the Southside and park in a surface lots with no extra expense?  The same can be said in any city but that dynamic changes when you're in a quality urban environment where people want to be.  In Jax, we're just not there and appear to be going backwards.

This defines the issue very clearly...

[simms3]

You're only parking one car.  What happens when you're paying to park 500 to 1000 every day?  My company is getting ready to relocate to the Northbank next month.  This is a major concern and we're only looking for 15 spaces.

Lake, correct me if I am wrong (this is how I know most companies operate).  Your company is shopping for space and needs a space that has an attached or nearby garage with 15 spaces.  It relocates to that space, and you the worker contracts with the garage operator or owner of the building that has the garage to have a space, and you pay monthly.  If you want a numbered space, you usually sign up for a list and when a numbered space opens up you can either accept or reject the offer (but you will pay substantially more).

Now some buildings may have more of a parking squeeze than other buildings, but overall downtown does not seem to have an "availability" problem, especially with the vacany rate.  Just think that 20 years ago there were more workers downtown and less parking spaces.  Now there are less workers and more parking spaces.  I still stand by my thought that I seriously doubt availability of parking is the reason for any company to move from downtown.  Adecco had a garage at Modis, ask any commercial broker and they will tell you it was an excuse.  Life of the South did not have its own garage, but it did have that lot and it had two garages within a block (and those two garages are never full).  It's just a big fat excuse for these larger firms to move from downtown.  It goes back to lack of leadership more than parking.

[thelakelander]

It's not an availability issue.  In the case of office use, it's a cost issue.  Other than pride in the urban community, what incentive is there for a typical major company to locate downtown instead of the suburbs?  If you run a company who's main goal is to make a profit, why spend what can amount to +$100k extra annually on parking in DT when you can rid yourself of that expense totally somewhere else?

[simms3]

What I was saying was that the company usually doesn't pay for the parking, the employees do.  In a sense the company has to be in a location where the employees *can* pay for parking, and that's where the cost issue arises.

[thelakelander]

I'm sure it ranges.  If we had to personally pay, we'd be heading to the Southside in a heartbeat.  My company now plans to pay for a block of parking, which has alleviated most employee's parking concerns.  That's a cost the company will eat that they would not if we relocated to the burbs.  The significant factor in our case is the CEO wants to be downtown.

[stjr]

But you and I know the sprawl model will not be reversed.  The developers are in charge here and will remain in charge, with no real voice for the activists, the academics, the environmentalists, or any one else who might have a different opinion about Jacksonville's livability.  

Passage of Amendment 4 might better equalize the playing field for downtown vs. the burbs.  As johnny notes above, it sure isn't getting done now.

[north miami]

 
[/quote]

Passage of Amendment 4 might better equalize the playing field for downtown vs. the burbs.  As johnny notes above, it sure isn't getting done now.
[/quote]

Most have no idea of the level of NE Florida future growth vested yet unseen now.
During the past decade while we have been focused on evil central Florida over growth/water wars key happenings here at home have assured an untold level of of our own version.Alternatives to Downtown stretch beyond the far horizon.......
The growth industry has been cheering all along.

I am a big fan of #4-however in yet another example of in the dark most do not understand #4 will not rectify what we have committed to.

[Miss Fixit]

It's not an availability issue.  In the case of office use, it's a cost issue.  Other than pride in the urban community, what incentive is there for a typical major company to locate downtown instead of the suburbs?  If you run a company who's main goal is to make a profit, why spend what can amount to +$100k extra annually on parking in DT when you can rid yourself of that expense totally somewhere else?

The simple solution, if parking were really the root problem, would be for downtown landlords to factor in the cost of parking when establishing their lease rates.

Parking is an issue but parking is not the biggest problem with downtown.  There is nothing about downtown Jacksonville that is attractive to the businesses that are relocating.  There is a better variety of shopping and restaurants on the southside. There are more services (for everyone but the homeless and drug abusers) on the southside.  Southside office parks are generally clean and well landscaped and it is unlikely that panhandlers are going to hit you up for change when you are headed to lunch.

Unless you are a business that needs to be in close proximity to government offices or the courthouse, how do you benefit in any way from locating your offices in downtown Jacksonville?

[Keith-N-Jax]

You dont benefit, so what are we going to do about it? The city is aware that bussiness are leaving DT right, just checking.

[Miss Fixit]

You dont benefit, so what are we going to do about it? The city is aware that bussiness are leaving DT right, just checking.

We MUST elect a mayor and city council that will offer significant incentives for businesses (large and small) and residents to move back to the urban core.

[tufsu1]

^On the surface that may be true.  However, its a serious problem if Company A that can operate anywhere (burbs or DT) with no problem.  At that point, why would Company A pay more to reserve +100 dedicated spaces in a DT garage when they can head out to the Southside and park in a surface lots with no extra expense?  The same can be said in any city but that dynamic changes when you're in a quality urban environment where people want to be.  In Jax, we're just not there and appear to be going backwards.  As I said in another thread, the parking issue is much more complicated than most would imagine.  Plus, its only one of many things that must be addressed before DT can ultimately be successful.

especially when the Southside office district is much more convenient for all those workers driving in from St. Johns County and Mandarin....the truth is downtown offices will continue to struggle until such time as there are more incentives to being down there....and chief among them is having a workforce that lives nearby!

[simms3]

Yes and we have a problem attracting the kind of workforce that wants to live near downtown or in downtown, i.e. young professionals recently out of college or grad school.  We are essentially a blue collar town with rich people in it.  We have 3 types of businesses: blue collar (which often pays well, just a different type of employee who may not be looking to live/work/shop downtown), services/call center types (often young people, but not progressive young people...they care more about the clubs and the mall, etc), and experienced white collar (these are your 40+ group who is now raising a family and wants to live in a more upscale suburban environment).

The missing ingredient is a large population of college grads/MBAs who need entry level or just beyond entry level white collar jobs.  This is the group that defines Charlotte.  This is the group that wants to live and work downtown and they are willing to pay extra for it (for parking, per square foot for a condo, for dining out, etc).  We are missing this group.  This group also energizes the older corporate type with families (bringing them back per se).  Your average executive or white collar worker in Jax is 40-60, second wife, golf=priority, etc.  Your older executives in Charlotte work side by side with their younger selves, and so they are energized and want to help make Charlotte a good environment for their former "selves".  (disclosure, they may also care more about golf and be on their second wife, but they have enough renewed energy to relive their younger days and help other young workers within the company relive those days by investing in downtown).

In addition to changing policies downtown and making it less of a "headache" as Lake so correctly explained, we should try to attract younger professionals.

[thelakelander]

It's not an availability issue.  In the case of office use, it's a cost issue.  Other than pride in the urban community, what incentive is there for a typical major company to locate downtown instead of the suburbs?  If you run a company who's main goal is to make a profit, why spend what can amount to +$100k extra annually on parking in DT when you can rid yourself of that expense totally somewhere else?

The simple solution, if parking were really the root problem, would be for downtown landlords to factor in the cost of parking when establishing their lease rates.

Parking is an issue but parking is not the biggest problem with downtown.  There is nothing about downtown Jacksonville that is attractive to the businesses that are relocating.  There is a better variety of shopping and restaurants on the southside. There are more services (for everyone but the homeless and drug abusers) on the southside.  Southside office parks are generally clean and well landscaped and it is unlikely that panhandlers are going to hit you up for change when you are headed to lunch.

Unless you are a business that needs to be in close proximity to government offices or the courthouse, how do you benefit in any way from locating your offices in downtown Jacksonville?

This basically sums up downtown's inability to attract and retain major companies.

[thelakelander]

Yes and we have a problem attracting the kind of workforce that wants to live near downtown or in downtown, i.e. young professionals recently out of college or grad school.  We are essentially a blue collar town with rich people in it.

Other than the love of being downtown (just because its downtown), why would anyone want to be there?  Its a sick urban environment that's priced out like it offers the lifestyle and activity of a 24/7 healthy urban environment.  Until the city invest in things that are a necessity for a healthy urban center, nothing is going to change.