JTA Transit Ridership Numbers

[Live_Oak]

In a city of a million people, how do you justify a service that is such a work of shite that the busiest route only averages 200 people per day?

huh?

the highest ridership route (CT1) has 72,000 riders a month....assuming it operates every day, that is still 2300+ each day

the lowest route appears to be the Mandarin express route....which likely runs twice a day (inbound in the am and outbound in the pm)....and it still gets about 10 passengers a day.

Those are monthly ridership statistics, not yearly Stephen.

[tpot]

I moved to MIA from JAX in May.  We have a skyway just like JAX except we call ours the People Mover and it actually goes to destinations all over downtown Miami and it's free.  We also have Metrorail that will take you to the North and South ends of Miami and Tri Rail that goes to Ft Lauderdale and Palm Beach....It's nice to be in a real city for a change......

[stjr]

Per chart below, 70% of weekday ridership on the Skyway initiates travel at Central, Hemming, and/or Rosa.  That is a 9 block stretch.  Assuming every rider returns to their starting station and that the 5 other stations send ALL 30% of their trip initiators to the above stations, that leaves 40% of all Skyway riders moving within this 9 block stretch.  And, I bet I am being generous.  Wow, for $14 million a year, we move the average rider between 4 and 9 blocks using several times the amount of time it takes to walk it.  Given the obesity rates in this country, we should make our citizens get a little exercise and forgo the waste of money here.



According to the chart below for June-July, 2010, the Skyway is averaging some 8,000 riders a week.  Divided by 5 days, that's 1,600/day (wonder how that reconciles with the suggested daily numbers on the other charts?).  Of course, if every rider takes a round trip, that is really 800 people a day.  Such a deal for $14 million a year.

so basically the Skyway has gone from about 1600 riders a day to about 2400 riders a day....what say you stjr?

I say, if you look at JTA's own numbers, all that has happened is that the Skyway traffic in July, 2010, has merely returned (maybe) to the already pathetically low numbers of October, 2008.  Hardly a reason for celebration.  When you are at the bottom, you can only go up.  But, this is far from tens of thousands projected for the EXISTING system over 20 years ago....what say you Tufsu?


By the way, not that it really matters, but what does APC stand for?  And, how can APC sometimes be more than the turnstile count and lower at other times?  How does JTA measure boardings at stations?  Do the gates to the cars have counters in them as well as the alarm beams?

Wonder how many station counts and rides are people realizing they got on the wrong car and they had to reboard?  Bridge's account of his travels on the Skyway bears remarkable resemblances to the experiences I related after the Jazz Festival regarding the confusion and nonsense riders endure using the system. (See http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,8670.0.html )

Lastly, I notice also that the below chart's monthly numbers don't always match the monthly totals (see October, 09, and June, 10) on the bar graph table.  This just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling about the competence of JTA to accurately report and track numbers and interpret them - NOT.

[CS Foltz]

stjr......you know that JTA is up front and honest with their numbers big guy! JTA is just as honest and up front as the current Administration and just raised our taxes! I guess JTA must be preparing to feed at the Federal trough? They are going to have to, they get no more money from me if I have anything to say about it!

[Coolyfett]

Well Duh!! Expand- extend- make longer! What else is new?

lol @ Jefferson Stations numbers....that station should not have been counted.

I am concerned with San Marco Station though....whats up with that?? Mosh & Friendship Park not pulling them in? When is USS Adams docking.....As I always say get the Skyway to Riverside & Sport Complex Id easily move back to Riverside!

[Coolyfett]

You see... I have an eye condition known as Retinitis Pigmentosa which caused the DMV to revoke my driver license (back in November 2007), forcing me to use JTA city buses and JTA Connexion. This is one of the biggest reason why I am on this website after facing the completely blasphemy and malarkey of our beloved city upclose in mass transit.

I can go into all the details all day long with those entities, but I am going to keep it short and sweet, unless someone ask me to take a dive.

JTA Connexion is one of the biggest jokes I ever seen in my entire life. Majority of the drivers I have seen and met are real nice and sweetheart, but the Director of JTA Connexion is a genuine dickhead. There, I said it. (Wherever you are, the Director of JTA Connexion who may be lurking on this sacred website, please take that into your heart).

JTA and its city buses, granted that they are more reliable than JTA Connexion, but the entire system is obnoxiously flawed.

Yes, I am preaching to the choir, but I want my opinion to be noted by my lovely peers on MetroJacksonville.

I honestly do believe JTA and its board of directors needs to be completely wiped out. I would suggests in bringing few retiredees/employees who wants to migrate from NYC's MTA, San Francisco's BART, Chicago's CTA, and other fine mass transit in North America cities to become part of the JTA to overhaul the entire system.

That should be the #1 step, then the real solutions will start falling in afterward.

I am going to stop here. -out of breath-

-Josh

I feel ya josh

Jacksonville does need to pic up ideas from the majors, the GOB network has run its coarse there. Its not a big town anymore its a city, they refuse to catch up.

[ChriswUfGator]

JTA's numbers are total bunk.

They count the same person 2, 3, 4, or more times. If one person has to take 3 buses to get where they're going, which is quite common thanks to JTA's FUBAR route structure, then one guy will count as 6 people on these figures. E.g., 3 "riders" on the outbound trip, 3 "riders" on the return trip. When the reality is that it's just one guy who's now pissed that he had to take 3 different buses 2 different times to get where he's going.

In fact, the vast majority of JTA's ridership has to take at least 2 buses, since they force you to change buses downtown for most trips, so you can probably divide these figures by at least half right off the bat, and then go from there. Until JTA publishes figures that account for the high percentage of connecting passengers and correct for that in their statistics, so that the same person isn't being counted as 8 riders a day, then everyone needs to take these numbers with a grain shaker ocean's worth of salt.

The true JTA ridership is some small fraction of these figures, but there's no way to tell exactly since they don't account for connecting passengers, desipite their system being designed so that most passengers are connecting passengers.

Makes no sense.

[tufsu1]

JTA's numbers are total bunk.

They count the same person 2, 3, 4, or more times. If one person has to take 3 buses to get where they're going, which is quite common thanks to JTA's FUBAR route structure, then one guy will count as 6 people on these figures. E.g., 3 "riders" on the outbound trip, 3 "riders" on the return trip. When the reality is that it's just one guy who's now pissed that he had to take 3 different buses 2 different times to get where he's going.

that is how EVERY transit agency in the country does it...that's why they are called ridership statistics...every time a person rides one of the vehicles, it counts as a trip.

Incidentally, we count auto trips in a similar fashion....say you are going to work but stop first to get gas and then drop your kids at school....that is 3 trips....it is called trip chaining

[CS Foltz]

tufsu............It might be just me, but thats reallys stretching ....don't you think? This is part of the problem with JTA, when I say they "cook" their numbers! Consider it like Economics......buzz words and what if's but nothing plain language! Maybe the accounting methods need to be more real time & life? I have questions regarding the $kyway and how those numbers are tabulated.....same with bus! Something, not only user friendly, but an actual number, not something that is guessed at............one rider, three stops equals four type crud!

[Singejoufflue]

It is nigh impossible to determine the actual number of discrete riders taking public transportation. Unless the entire city is outfitted with personal bus cards with photos imprinted, good luck. I can let my friend borrow my pass on the weekends if I don't need it, so is that one rider or two on that pass?

Regardless to whether the system is "designed" to force all transferring passengers through DT, most public trans isn't designed to be single-leg journeys anyway.  

I personally think half the challenges with the current system map are the convoluted bus routes that take you through hells half-acre instead of a more direct route.  There are adequate "main roads" within this city that need dedicated service.  From there, how about we branch off into smaller routes that can offer neighborhood access?  

Someone give me a map of Jacksonville and a full set of Sharpies...

[Doctor_K]

Can anyone speak on how the "Arlington Community Shuttle" project is working out for that part of town?  Seems to me from reading previous articles on that, as part of a larger realignment, that it made sense to have smaller shuttle-buses on the arteries in Arlington that people could transfer to the 'larger' bus routes for expanded parts of town.

Not being an expert on the subject by any stretch, and strictly IMO, that model makes sense.

My question is - is it working?

And - if it *is* working, can we duplicate it for other parts of town in a continuing effort to revamp the current sub-standard bus system?

[Singejoufflue]

The Arlington shuttle has been reproduced all over town, 10 in all.  I will assume that means there was sufficient success to replicate the model.  I have not yet taken it (it would be my local); however, my issue hasn't been navigating Arlington, so much as connecting to other portions of the city, particularly the JTB areas. 

I do question how the shuttle can maintain any sense of timeliness if, for an additional $.50, you can get curbside pickup within the "service area".

[fieldafm]

There is a public input meeting in two weeks(there was also one yesterday) on route changes to MANY current routes as well as the Arlington and Beaches Community Shuttle.

MORE IMPORTANTLY is the discussion about service continuation after 7PM for all routes!

S1 Regency/Avenues
The proposal is to end the route at Regency Square Mall instead of Downtown. The new route would travel between Regency Square Mall and The Avenues. Travel from Regency to Southside Boulevard would also change. The outbound bus would depart the mall, turn left on Atlantic, right on Live Oak (which becomes Forest) right on Fraser, right on Lake, left on Eisenhower and left on Southside. At Ivey, the southbound route will enter the service road. The inbound trip will remain on Southside to Eisenhower then reverse the loop. The area on Southside between Eisenhower and Atlantic and on Atlantic between Southside and the mall would not be served. If approved, the Regency to Downtown leg would be served by the modified R5 FSCJ/Regency.

R5 FSCJ/Regency
If the S1 modification is made, the R5 route would move to the service road on the Arlington Expressway to pick up riders currently using the S1. No other changes are proposed to this route.

P4 Myrtle Ave./Roosevelt Blvd.
No route change is being proposed. A schedule change is proposed to make connections with the Cecil Field Community Shuttle and WS6 Stockton/Wilson.

WS12 Murray Hill/Edgewood
The end of the route is being considered for modification. The proposed change would take the route from Normandy Boulevard to Lenox Avenue to Plymouth Street to Cassat Avenue. The purpose is to serve an apartment complex on Lenox.

NS19 Avenue /River City Marketplace
The schedule is being considered for modification to improve on-time performance.

WS52 Blanding Commuter Express
The proposal is to add one trip in the morning and one in the evening to the service.

Arlington Community Shuttle
A change in the schedule is under consideration to improve on-time performance issues.

Beaches Community Shuttle
A change in the schedule is under consideration to improve on-time performance issues.

Service after 7 p.m.
Modification to all service after 7 p.m. is being considered.  The plan is to look at the number of riders on all trips systemwide after 7 p.m. and see if the ridership is high enough to keep the run. Those trips with low ridership may be discontinued.

Public Hearing
FSCJ Downtown Campus, 101 W. State St.
October 28, 11 a.m.â€"1 p.m. and 4â€"5:30 p.m.

If you are unable to attend the meeting but want your input to be considered, send your comments to:
Kent Stover
Jacksonville Transportation Authority
100 N. Myrtle Ave.
Jacksonville, FL 32204
Fax: (904) 630-3166
kstover@jtafla.com

Or send a comment through our online comment form.

http://www.jtafla.com/News/showPage.aspx?news=125

I would encourage system users to attend the meeting or email Mr Stover at the email address listed above.

[stjr]

Service after 7 p.m.
Modification to all service after 7 p.m. is being considered.  The plan is to look at the number of riders on all trips systemwide after 7 p.m. and see if the ridership is high enough to keep the run. Those trips with low ridership may be discontinued.

More evidence that JTA is not committed to a viable bus system.  Building hundreds of millions of dollars in JTB ramps, etc. since JTA is really a road building agency and losing $14 million on a barely used Skyway system so JTA doesn't lose face - that's all OK.  JTA is showing it once again "speaks with forked tongue".

[Singejoufflue]

To be sure, JTA wants as little input from riders as possible.  They are holding two meetings, 11 a.m.â€"1 p.m. and 4â€"5:30 p.m, right when people who take the damned things are at work. 

Yes, let's cut service to ensure the people who have no additional transportation can lose their jobs, thereby freeing up that position for a more worthy car-owner. They're just poor people and convicts anyway.  Right?