JTA Transit Ridership Numbers

[exnewsman]

If you factor that of the  795k residents, 26% are under 18 and therefore typically don't ride the bus. That leaves about 582k adults in Duval. Using either the 12k or 15k number, you're looking at between 1 out of 38 to 1 out of 48 adults using JTA. How does that compare to other cities?

[Singejoufflue]

Ex, I think it is a mistake to leave out those under 18.  Most mass transit allows for young children to ride free; however, the availability of a bus route to young people 15-18 would be great for first jobs, going to the library, cultural events, etc.  Particularly in the larger cities, students use bus/train to commute to schools that may not be serviced by private school buses.

I found an interesting link as it seems impossible to access straight number of riders versus trips.
http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2009_q4_ridership_APTA.pdf

For the last quarter reporting Jacksonville data, comparing only motor bus (MB) figures, and sorted by population rankings (in parenthesis), these are our peers:

Jacksonville (13)
Memphis (19)
El Paso (22)
Tampa (54)
St. Pete (77)
Richmond (103)
Spokane (104)
Syracuse (176)
Lansing (223)

[tufsu1]

If you factor that of the  795k residents, 26% are under 18 and therefore typically don't ride the bus. That leaves about 582k adults in Duval. Using either the 12k or 15k number, you're looking at between 1 out of 38 to 1 out of 48 adults using JTA. How does that compare to other cities?

average transit use throughout the US is about 2%....obviously it is closer to zero in rural areas, but most cities still don't get above 10% (only exceptions are DC and NYC)

[Lunican]

average transit use throughout the US is about 2%....obviously it is closer to zero in rural areas, but most cities still don't get above 10% (only exceptions are DC and NYC)

Where did you get those stats?

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s1081.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_high_transit_ridership

The following is a list of United States cities of 100,000+ inhabitants with the 50 highest rates of public transit commuting to work, according to data from the 2006 American Community Survey. The survey measured the percentage of commuters who take public transit, as opposed to walking, driving an automobile, bicycle, boat, or some other means.
1. New York, New York - 54.24%
2. Jersey City, New Jersey - 46.62%
3. Washington, D.C. - 38.97%
4. Boston, Massachusetts - 31.6%
5. San Francisco, California - 30.29%
6. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - 26.43%
7. Arlington, Virginia - 26.28%
8. Yonkers, New York - 25.47%
9. Chicago, Illinois - 25.38%
10. Newark, New Jersey - 24.04%
11. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - 21.14%
12. Alexandria, Virginia - 20.55%
13. Baltimore, Maryland - 19.55%
14. Seattle, Washington - 17.79%
15. Berkeley, California - 17.36%
16. Daly City, California - 17.27%
17. Oakland, California - 16.72%
18. Buffalo, New York - 15.62%
19. Richmond, California - 15.55%
20. Hartford, Connecticut - 15.5%
21. Atlanta, Georgia - 14.85%
22. Edison, New Jersey - 14.82%
23. Paterson, New Jersey - 13.85%
24. East Los Angeles, California - 13.75%
25. Minneapolis, Minnesota - 13.19%
26. Portland, Oregon - 12.64%
27. Cleveland, Ohio - 12.22%
28. Miami, Florida - 12.16%
29. Stamford, Connecticut - 11.86%
30. San Juan, Puerto Rico - 11.26%
31. Bridgeport, Connecticut - 11.24%
32. Cincinnati, Ohio - 11.17%
33. Honolulu, Hawaii - 11.08%
34. Los Angeles, California - 10.97%
35. Concord, California - 10.85%
36. Rochester, New York - 10.78%
37. St. Louis, Missouri - 10.28%
38. New Haven, Connecticut - 10.%
39. Milwaukee, Wisconsin - 9.96%
40. Naperville, Illinois - 9.7%
41. Santa Ana, California - 9.24%
42. Providence, Rhode Island - 8.89%
43. Bellevue, Washington - 8.81%
44. Madison, Wisconsin - 8.74%
45. St. Paul, Minnesota - 8.22%
46. Ann Arbor, Michigan - 8.13%
47. Elizabeth, New Jersey - 8.01%
48. Dayton, Ohio - 7.57%
49. Denver, Colorado - 7.44%
50. Eugene, Oregon - 7.37%

[spuwho]

40. Naperville, Illinois - 9.7%

Wow. Naperville, the 4th largest city in Illinois (128k) and a suburb of Chicago, with only ONE commuter rail line & 3 stops (Metra BNSF Aurora Line) and yet they are the 40th largest in the country.

Most people would call Naperville the worst example of suburban sprawl, but yet they rank here.

[thelakelander]

It's nice to see Miami on that list at 12%.  Is it safe to assume the Jax's 2% represents the statistics for the consolidated city, which is essentially a county by most place's definition?  Does anyone have any idea of what the mode share split is for the preconsolidated city?

[tufsu1]

Transit ridership for work trips is always the highest....but since work trips make up only about 25% of our trips, they are not directly representative of the whole.

So, if you assume that there are about 400,000 workers in Jacksonville (don't have time to look up the actual figures)....and 15,000 use transit, then our transit mode split for work would be 3.75%.

Sorry Stephen, my imaginary set of assumptions was not exploded.

[ChriswUfGator]

Transit ridership for work trips is always the highest....but since work trips make up only about 25% of our trips, they are not directly representative of the whole.

So, if you assume that there are about 400,000 workers in Jacksonville (son't have time to look up the actual figures)....and15,000 use transit, then our transit mode split for work would be 3.75%.

Sorry Stephen, my imaginary set of assumptions was not exploded.

Well what would you call it then?

You said (your own words, not mine) that no city has more than 10%, and you strongly implied that most cities' ridership is comparable to Jacksonville's. You posted no links or other citations. Then Dan responds with information and a verifiable source, which would seem to indicate that you were off by a margin of 500%. So where is a source disproving the figures Dan posted? Or would you prefer Stephen use the word "detonated" instead of "exploded"?

I'm not seeing the ambiguity in this statement;

average transit use throughout the US is about 2%....obviously it is closer to zero in rural areas, but most cities still don't get above 10% (only exceptions are DC and NYC)

[tufsu1]

You said (your own words, not mine) that no city has more than 10%, and you strongly implied that most cities' ridership is comparable to Jacksonville's. You posted no links or other citations. Then Dan responds with information and a verifiable source, which would seem to indicate that you were off by a margin of 500%. So where is a source disproving the figures Dan posted? Or would you prefer Stephen use the word "detonated" instead of "exploded"?

I'm not seeing the ambiguity in this statement;

average transit use throughout the US is about 2%....obviously it is closer to zero in rural areas, but most cities still don't get above 10% (only exceptions are DC and NYC)

well as you quoted what I said specifically, you should note that I said no city (except NYC and DC) had above a 10% mode share to transit....this was a general statement for all trips

Dan posted statistics for work trips only (usually the highest attractor for transit than other types of trips)....and discounting the DC and NYC metro areas, the highest was Boston at 31.6%....so it is entirely possible that Boston's overall transit share is around 10%.

It is not my fault that you don't understand transportation data

[tufsu1]

Transportation statistics for the whole country...note where it shows 89% for the highway (includes 3% for buses), an about 1% for all forms of rail

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_the_United_States#Mode_share


or how about this article that notes that no more than 5% of workers commute using transit

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-01-mass-transit_N.htm

or how about statistics from the San Francisco Bay area...shows about 10% mode split to transit for work (Table B), but less than 6% for all trips (Table C)....note that Dan's table from the ACS was for the City of San Francisco, not the entire metro area, which is why transit use was higher.

All of this shows clearly that non-work trips (like school, shopping, recreation, etc.) are less likely candidates for transit use....thereby I stand behind my original post.

http://www.abag.ca.gov/planning/smartgrowth/AltsTechApp/SG-Trans-IndicatorsSum.pdf

[CS Foltz]

stephen..........I understand now why JTA is a blipping blank when it comes to something other than bus and BRT now! tufsu may be on the inside looking out, but the outsiders are looking also! I know.......we just need another study to prove what we allready know ....right?

[tufsu1]

yeah,  having just read those articles, none of them actually make your point.

Extra credit for being able to correctly identify the words 'mass transit' in a google search though.

The figures are the figures, TUFSU.  

You made a crazy claim that was incorrect, and thats all there is too it.

I think the one graph on Wikipedia makes it clear...of major cities, there's a cluster that fall into the less than 5% category for commuting (i.e., work) by transit....with only 6 cities being 25% or higher.

I agree it is sad that Jax. has such a low transit ridership....but making this just a Jax/JTA only problem is putting blinders on.

Would you be happy if transit use in Jax. doubled and we were similar to comparison cities like Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, and San Diego...or would 5% still be considered terrible?

[Singejoufflue]

http://www.vtpi.org/tranben.pdf

Page 20 notes 11.6% of the national population use public transportation "at least once per month."  However, please also note page 19 highlights "70% of people who used transit during the last month use it less than five times a week" and "33% of transit trips [are] made by discretionary riders (people who have the option of driving a car)."

Brass tacks: around 15K people in Jax are taking the transit system.  JTA is looking to reduce service across the board after 7pm.  Buses are running an 80% on-time rate. AND I have no where to stand in a summer torrential downpour!  Can we stop arguing about rough calculations and start talking about some solutions?

Yes, Tufsu, 5% is still poor in a city of Jacksonville's size.  According to the attached, Jax should be around 6.4%. I think if Jacksonville wants to continue to grow, in reputation, revenue, etc., strong public transportation is critical.

[ChriswUfGator]

Ok Tufsu...

So, first you said;

most cities still don't get above 10% (only exceptions are DC and NYC)

In reality, the 38 largest US cities, many of which incidentally have far lower population than we do, all have above 10%, and the larger metropolitan areas can have as much as 50%. If that isn't your claim being exploded, I don't know what qualifies. I'll happily say "detonated" if you prefer?

Jacksonville has 2%.

We are bringing up the bottom, right next to Anchorage Alaska. Sweet.

I'm sure next you'll say how the differing weather conditions between Florida and Anchorage Alaska don't affect use of public transit, and so Jacksonville's 2% isn't really that bad. I guess, if you put it another way, you could say that riding JTA is statistically as unpleasant as sloshing your way through rain, sleet, snow, freezing winds, and subzero temperatures.

[Doctor_K]

But are you talking about all mass-transit or just mass-transit used for commuting to work and only work?  Wouldn't that lead to a discrepancy in the numbers that you and Stephen and TUFSU are arguing about?

Bigger cities have better and more available mass transit that allows them the options to go places other than to their places of employment.  Can't say that Jax offers anything much that's similar, no?