A Riverfront View of FL's Largest Historic District: Avondale and Riverside

[ricker]

I will ALWAYS wish to see the water taxi route extended to include a stop in the Marina Mile district at the half-bridge fishing pier at Sadler Marina below the US-17 Roosevelt Ortega bridge.

hmm.

The Commander tower and Loop/Espeto strip will be an interesting project to watch unfold oneday, thanks for the reminder!

Oneday when the Riverwalk does allow access via boat directly to Memorial Park etc. perhaps we'll enjoy the McCoy greenway reaching NW, and the Landing @ Laura Street north and Met Park and Shipyard pier out on the east end along with "our"  Brickell Ave.

but how 'bout the water taxi stop?
I would not be suprised of some (/many) folks reject the idea of adding a stop at Stockton Park_the newly restored "trolley" (/a.k.a. sort-bus) line handles that.

the top of the "new" bridge is an impresive spot to watch the downtown fireworks for any event btw.
do I hear park and ride lot anyone?

with all marine businesses in the immediate vicinity, one would think it could be a straight forward approach to install a mini bouyant dock...

[Noone]

with all marine businesses in the immediate vicinity, one would think it could be a straight forward approach to install a mini bouyant dock...

Ricker and Simms that is why a pocket pier floating dock should be a number 1 campaign issue not only in the mayoral race but the upcoming city council race.

Stockton park would work. Simms in your opinion what would be the best waterfront public access street end in Ortega, Riverside, or Avondale that would be an additional location and benefit for a pocket pier?

The recent River Summit showed that Duval county is lacking in this additional economic benefit and Public Access opportunity that is being used in other counties.

[ricker]

I do see the sense in opening access to the river for all to enjoy.   I simply wish it was easier to get folks to show up in Council Chambers, fill out a 3 minute speaker card and lay out a basic wish list.

All of the work c/should be completed by the string of qualified businesses in the immediate area.

I feel it in me bones that the residents of old Ortega may not approve of such an attachment to the relatively quiet Stockton Park.  Understandably so as this sort of an improvement may add more traffic to Ortega Blvd at St.Mark's and the Village which seems counterproductive to the aim of recently slated "improvements' at the south end of the Blvd.

The fishing pier at Sadler continues to be a topic of conversation with many folks unprompted by myself.
Such an element added to the area of Lakeside Park and Roosevelt Mall, Lake Shore and the Marina Mile would allow that vicinity to experience a stabilization in home values and add a much needed park for the surrounding somewhat isolated neighborhood.

I am certainly an advocate for thinking regionally.
who knows_homeland security may prohibit a boat dock within the railway?
One can dream.

[rainfrog]

I would hope before all else, Ortega gets a few more sidewalks.

It has always struck me as odd how large swaths of Jax in the Avondale/Ortega/Murray Hill/Lakeshore area (and era) have very patchy networks of sidewalks despite their wonderful grids, many streets with none at all, or those random stretches in front of one or two houses only, separated from the roadway by grass and beginning and ending with grass. True, I can tell many paved paths have been subsequently added to these neighborhoods since they were built, probably mostly where kids walk to school, but I would think by now ALL of these now-considered-inner neighborhoods would be filled with as much an abundant network of paved walking paths as their network of roadways, with a complete ring around every single block, or at the very least a sidewalk on one side of every single street.

When A) many post-WWII subdivisions have sidewalks on every single street on both sides, without the blessing of being close to the center of town, and B) newer streets and arterial roads out in the middle of exurbia have miles and miles of sidewalks, signage, and crossing signals where there's absolutely nothing to walk to yet and may not be for a long time to come, the many gaps in the older parts of town just seem that much stranger. I'm no planner, but I'd like to see Jax more walkable, pedestrian friendly, and pro-transit, and it seems like sidewalks would be an obvious and forehead-slapping starting point!

I mean, let's face it, we shouldn't have to walk on anyone's grass or in the middle of a street where we're MOST likely to be distracted by good architecture worth being distracted by.

[simms3]

Agreed that residents of Jacksonville need more riverfront access.  I have lived on the river in Ortega for most of my life, so I feel like I am in tune with many thoughts in the hood (and I must say I diverge on opinion in some areas and share many of the same sentiments).

The way to increase river access in the closer in neighborhoods like Ortega and Avondale is NOT to put in a boat ramp.  That is NEVER going to happen.  Most people in the area are members or friends of members of FYC, which has a boat ramp in a quiet, secluded corner.  A boat ramp is a blight and attracts traffic in the form of big suburban towing ~25 ft. Grady White, turning around, backing it up, people helping direct, etc.  I personally get tired enough of people from Clay County slowly meandering down my street just to view the neighborhood let alone towing a freakin boat to launch on a ramp!  Just move here, there are affordable houses

The ramps should stay in private places like FYC, at designated marinas like Lamb's or Sadler (no ramp, it has a lift, same with Lamb's), and in less developed areas.

The best way to increase access is to do what people in Ortega have done with Stockton Park and Baker Point near the bridge and that is to spend some private money to spruce it up.  McGirts Park needs a major rehabilitation and better parking.  People already come to that park from all over to launch their canoes/kayaks, which is fine because it doesn't produce the same traffic and the park slopes down into the water (no bulkhead).  There is a strip of land at Little Van Wert next door to Jennifer Johnson's old house in Avondale that could be turned into something (though the current other next door neighbors would have a major meltdown if there was an even a proposal to do something...when we used to drink there in high school they got mad and most of us know them and went to school with their kids...imagine strangers or the Stockton Crowd fishermen type).

Redoing the rest of the parks is the only and best way.  Riverfront access aside from the parks is even more limited than beachfront access in PVB because there are no "access" points, even covered up.  Downtown is a more public area and should be the focal point of where to access the waterfront, not Ortega or Avondale or San Marco because these are all quiet single family (mostly) residential neighborhoods, and residents put down a fork load and pay a forkload annually to enjoy the riverfront peacefully and privately.  It is pretty dang nice that some residents in Ortega have spruced up the local parks on their own dime for the enjoyment of others (check out Ortega Bridge and Stockton Park...none of those people live in the neighborhood, they come in by bus and car...and might I add we saw a dramatic increase in crime in Ortega from 2005-2008, I don't know if that was a correlation, but we have a doctor friend who parked by Baker Point and was shot in the morning on his jog because he wouldn't give his keys to some hoodrats that wanted to steal his car...he's alive).

As for sidewalks, yea we could use them.  All of the moms go on power walks and have to walk in the street and all of the kids ride bikes/gopeds and have to ride in the street.  Some roads in Ortega are more frequently used as throughways by outsiders like Ortega Blvd and McGirts Blvd so they sometimes become dangerous to even be on if you aren't in a car.  I know some people don't want to see their yard torn up, but I know some people interestingly who feel like the city spends way too much money in new neighborhoods in the burbs and not enough money in the old neighborhoods (my parents are among those).  As a result, you have residents that spend their own money on projects in Ortega.  It was private residents that got permits and spent money to have speed bumps put on Ortega Blvd/Grand near the curve (though some people got mad at that and tore them up).  The city refuses to pay a dime for anything in the neighborhood, especially at this point, I guess because it assumes everyone there just has the money to throw at projects themselves.  It's a real double standard because riverfront residents already pay higher ad valorem taxes than anyone else in the city (aside from your office buildings or multifamily) and we don't "use" the system as much (most residents work downtown using roads already in existence and nobody sends their kids to public school...so that's a double whammy there too).

Ok explanation over, but I did forget one thing.  River taxi stop will never come to Ortega.  Nobody in Ortega would use it for commuting and we already get enough "visitors" to our parks.  We don't want tourists in our "quiet" neighborhood on top of that and the associated traffic and need for additional parking.  Plus the city would most likely make us pay for it like they do everything else and it ain't going to happen.

[simms3]

I do see the sense in opening access to the river for all to enjoy.  I feel it in me bones that the residents of old Ortega may not approve of such an attachment to the relatively quiet Stockton Park.  Understandably so as this sort of an improvement may add more traffic to Ortega Blvd at St.Mark's and the Village which seems counterproductive to the aim of recently slated "improvements' at the south end of the Blvd.

The fishing pier at Sadler continues to be a topic of conversation with many folks unprompted by myself.

See above loooonnnnnggggg explanation of everything, LoL.  Until you live on Ortega Blvd or McGirts you just don't realize how much traffic there actually is with 90% being from places like Clay County, busses, or other traffic.  We're fine with it to a degree, but nobody is going to allow Ortega to turn into a tourist stop or destination for visitors.  It's a public residential neighborhood and should remain as such.

Also the fishing pier is a good idea.  I have pushed for it a little myself.  It will happen someday.  I personally don't think it will "stabilize" home values.  Fishermen don't add value to an area (they don't detract though either), but sometimes associated acts can detract from the area if crime elements are also brought it (which often happens, has happened in Ortega as a result of sprucing up the Ortega Bridge area and Stockton Park).  At least parking space is already abundant.  Having worked at Sadler a long time ago and knowing the owner's of Lamb's/Huckins as well, there will be security concerns for sure, and rightfully so.  A fishing pier doesn't "close" at night, and that area already sees drunk teenagers (who throw bottles at things), homeless, fishermen (already there, trust me), and hoodrats (who like to steal things, especially off of boats).  Would designating it an official pier and sprucing it up a little and adding parking increase the night presence or would it decrease?  Perhaps a $400,000 study could answer that. 

[ricker]

Very funny with the $400 large!

As an active volunteer in the area, I made a motion for the group to adopt the half-bridge in accordance with the fdot program in order to encourage an improvement in the types of traffic visiting the pier.
We have since obligated ourselves to quarterly clean-ups which have turned out a great crowd. 

In the hope of finding shelter from the heat for the older ones and the ability to retreat from the pop-up showers uor climate is known for during the summer, we've found Mr.Busey (Brooks) to be a rather aproachable young man with great ideas which are building momentum.
As for good ol' Mr.Bronson... I am dying to know what may ever happen with that 2 level motel looking building at the front of his property at the end of Hamilton St.?

A
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to the gross need in the sidewalk department in the (now) inner city neighboroods.
Granted, these were the original 'burbs.  Some areas are still treated like rural outposts and have not been readdressed since the 1940s.
Absurdity ensues when considering the traffic VOLUME (in "studies") should not have to compete for consideration in funding future horizontal improvements when the many MODES of traffic now mixing in some areas alone should warrant the implementation of at least the basics throughout.

[ricker]

 
growing up in the fishweir end of (not really) avondale, on the creek (technically riverside's Crabtree Manor) in a home my family extensively renovated (i.e. doubled the sqft) after moving out of ortega, it's funny to remember so many of my friends asking fish what?

there(i/wa)'s a car or 3 in that there creek.
ask anyone older than 85 who knew the area well before Azalea terrace was built up.
we're talking first few classes of Fishweir(opened in 1917-1918).  the end of Valencia purportedly lead to a dumping ground. including a car scrap yard before Fishweir +park+

paddling my canoe as a kid ,I beached myself on the top of a white roofed coupe of some great year (no rust visible)

I guess there isn't much to photograph except the spiders under 17.

I love this place and wish some folks were't so damn haughty.