Downtown Bus Rapid Transit Project Moving Forward

[uptowngirl]

 

from what I understand most of the folks who attended the meeting left in favor of the project....if you feel otherwise, you need to voice your opinion to JTA at these meetings or via e-mail....not on this site alone.

I tried to go to the meeting, but my car was in the shop and I could not figure out a bus route to get me there, I would have to walk about six blocks to the nearest bus stop, take an hour to get there, and walk another eight blocks to the meeting site '-)

[ChriswUfGator]

The people I have encountered within JTA have been very friendly and open to feedback.

Sadly, the same can't be said for the JTA people the public actually encounters on a daily basis...

[thelakelander]

Just taking a look at the Downtown BRT Preliminary Engineering Plans.  I know in the past some have asked how much a BRT station costs.  Here is the cost estimate from the 2008 report.

BRT Station Stops Estimates (2008 estimate):

$17,600 - Bus Pad Construction 11' x 120' @ $120/sq yard)

$25/sq ft - Boarding area construction

$25,000/each - Passenger shelter

$90,000 - Fare Collection Equipment (per platform)

$5,000 - Variable Message Board Equipment

$35,000 allowance - Site Furniture, Lighting, Bike Racks, Signage, Trash Receptacles

$10,000 allowance - Public Art

$182,000 Total per typical stop (excluding cost of Boarding area construction)

[CS Foltz]

Multiply that times the number of stop's planned and the figures tell all!

[ChriswUfGator]

That's a lot of money for a bus stop.

[Dog Walker]

$90,000 - Fare Collection Equipment (per platform)

For that amount of money you could have PEOPLE collecting the fares!  (What an idea!)

[thelakelander]

That's a lot of money for a bus stop.

It's why I believe BRT, as designed locally, is a farce to a degree.  Quite frankly, you can develop an efficient and reliable bus system without paying for many of these bells and whistles.

[CS Foltz]

That's a lot of money for a bus stop.

It's why I believe BRT, as designed locally, is a farce to a degree.  Quite frankly, you can develop an efficient and reliable bus system without paying for many of these bells and whistles.

We could do without all of the "bells and whistles", if you wish to call them that........plain and simple,efficient routes and maybe some shelters........it could be pretty simple, but JTA insist's on its master plan from hell!

[ChriswUfGator]

Actually thats an excellent idea, and you've touched on a big problem with the present us economic system. Automation has created a dearth of opportunities for unskilled labor (or so it's called) and replaced the "fallback" type jobs where people could get back on their feet with computerized machines.

$90,000 - Fare Collection Equipment (per platform)

For that amount of money you could have PEOPLE collecting the fares!  (What an idea!)

[Dog Walker]

Chris,  It's probably a topic for another thread, maybe "Where have all the Jobs Gone?", but I think it is not just "fallback" jobs that are a problem, but entry jobs too.

In my opinion, one of the unintended side effects of the minimum wage laws is the high number of unemployed and unemployable youths in our population.  There are so few jobs where they can learn to hold a job because their wages would be too high.

Example:  Take the kids who take your tickets at the cinema multiplex.  They take your ticket, point out which theater your movie is in and pick up the trash when the movie is over.  What are they learning?  How to make a career as a ticket taker?  No.

What they are learning is how to get to work on time, how to take directions from a supervisor, how to interact with the public, how to dress appropriately, maybe even how to give directions to a more junior employee.  All extremely valuable skills for anyone in any kind of employment.

When you make this sort of entry level job too expensive, it gets automated out of existence i.e. automated ticket selling machines at the bus stations and the opportunity to learn how to be employed goes away.

Right now, the best place for a young person to learn these skills is to enlist in the military where the minimum wage laws certainly don't apply.

[Dog Walker]

Didn't know that Stephen.  Thanks for the information.  What is the lower wage for teens?

[ChriswUfGator]

You really can't analyze wages in a vacuum though dogwalker. That's not going to solve the problem. If you let businesses pay as little as they can, regardless of what the cost of living is, then of course that's exactly what they'll do, and the poverty problem in this country will continue to grow worse. The problem is that wages are already so low that we've created a country that a big chunk of which can't afford to buy the products and services we produce. Which causes the need for more costs cuts as businesses don't want to accept lower profits. Which continues the vicious cycle.

Chris,  It's probably a topic for another thread, maybe "Where have all the Jobs Gone?", but I think it is not just "fallback" jobs that are a problem, but entry jobs too.

In my opinion, one of the unintended side effects of the minimum wage laws is the high number of unemployed and unemployable youths in our population.  There are so few jobs where they can learn to hold a job because their wages would be too high.

Example:  Take the kids who take your tickets at the cinema multiplex.  They take your ticket, point out which theater your movie is in and pick up the trash when the movie is over.  What are they learning?  How to make a career as a ticket taker?  No.

What they are learning is how to get to work on time, how to take directions from a supervisor, how to interact with the public, how to dress appropriately, maybe even how to give directions to a more junior employee.  All extremely valuable skills for anyone in any kind of employment.

When you make this sort of entry level job too expensive, it gets automated out of existence i.e. automated ticket selling machines at the bus stations and the opportunity to learn how to be employed goes away.

Right now, the best place for a young person to learn these skills is to enlist in the military where the minimum wage laws certainly don't apply.

[Dog Walker]

I wasn't suggesting that we do away with the minimum wage at all, just commenting on what I think are some of the side effects.  Stephen says the minimum for teens is lower than for adults.  If it is low enough then it should offset some of the side effects, but if it is like a buck lower then it probably doesn't have much impact and some additional solutions need to be found.

I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days on an air craft carrier that was on a training cruise two years ago and was hugely impressed with the intensity and quality of the hands-on training that the young people were getting.  Also very impressed with the responsibility they were given, under close supervision, for very important tasks.  Watched a young woman who couldn't have been more than 19 act as helm for the entire ship.

You could just feel the pride and confidence that came off all of the youngsters on board and I could not help with wishing that we could give more of our young people the same opportunities for accomplishment at that early stage in their adulthood. 

I don't know about the other services, but I can tell you for sure that the Navy is doing an outstanding job of turning kids into young adults.

[ChriswUfGator]

But that's the thing. Naval officers make many multiples of minimum wage. If the military paid what private employers like walmart pay, nobody would enlist and we wouldn't have a military, or else you wouldn't have anyone qualified to do anything. The reason they undertake a dangerous job, in addition to patriotism of course, is because they make a good living doing it. You get whatcha pay for!

I wasn't suggesting that we do away with the minimum wage at all, just commenting on what I think are some of the side effects.  Stephen says the minimum for teens is lower than for adults.  If it is low enough then it should offset some of the side effects, but if it is like a buck lower then it probably doesn't have much impact and some additional solutions need to be found.

I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days on an air craft carrier that was on a training cruise two years ago and was hugely impressed with the intensity and quality of the hands-on training that the young people were getting.  Also very impressed with the responsibility they were given, under close supervision, for very important tasks.  Watched a young woman who couldn't have been more than 19 act as helm for the entire ship.

You could just feel the pride and confidence that came off all of the youngsters on board and I could not help with wishing that we could give more of our young people the same opportunities for accomplishment at that early stage in their adulthood. 

I don't know about the other services, but I can tell you for sure that the Navy is doing an outstanding job of turning kids into young adults.

[Dog Walker]

The young enlisted seamen I was talking about don't make anywhere near the minimum wage.  On the carrier they were twelve on twelve off six and seven days a week for six months deployment.

How many hours is that?  What does a sailor just out of basic earn?

As far as I am concerned, military officers in any service earn every penny and every benefit they get.

We are way off the thread.  Sorry admins, I'll quit.