Downtown Bus Rapid Transit Project Moving Forward

[Metro Jacksonville]

Downtown Bus Rapid Transit Project Moving Forward



As JTA moves forward with implementing Bus Rapid Transit in downtown, Metro Jacksonville takes a look at the proposed shelter designs.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jul-downtown-bus-rapid-transit-project-moving-forward

[WillNevaLeaveJAX]

ok

[acme54321]

What's the point?  Seems like just a normal bus route with a few small sections of dedicated lane.  Looks like a big waste of money to me, how does that cost 12mil?  And it basically coversthe same route as the skyway?  Stupid.  No one wants to ride a bus, they stink, they're noisy.

[thelakelander]

It cost $12 million because they are literally rebuilding streets, like Broad and Jefferson.  Unfortunately, it appears that they still won't be adding bicycle lanes even after spending millions on street reconstruction.

[brainstormer]

This is ridiculous.  This route connects no-where to no-where.  If there was high demand for ridership on these streets then the Skyway would be busting at the seems.  It seems that for $12 million, Smart Starts would also fund a streetcar line which would get us more bang for our buck and create more private investment along its path.  BRT in our downtown isn't going to create any economic growth.  I think JTA has really lost all common sense.

[tufsu1]

Let me first preface this by saying I'm not defending JTA....but...

This is the just start of the system....eventually it will connect with the rest of the BRT line...in the meantime, many of the local buses that circulate through downtown will be re-routed to these streets.

$12 million pays for the following:

1. Dedicated lanes in some places (restriping)
2. New streetscape/sidewalks (Broad & Jefferson sure need it)
3. Shelters (I'm thinking they will put 2-3 of these at each stop)
4. Signal pre-emption/priority (extends the green time so buses can go through)

As to the streetcar question, FTA's small starts program is a subset of the New Starts program...and up until last month, streetcars could not be funded using this money....furthermore, environmental studies are required to be complete to get design and construction money....the downtown BRT studies have been completed.

[dlupercio]

REALLY?!?!?!?! what is the point of wasting this much money for something not need or wanted!!!!?!?!?! The people have spoken time and time again. WE WANT RAILS! not buses. No one uses the SKYWAY because it goes nowhere! Invest on extending that. Streetcars? improve the trolley system or something. these bus improvements are going no where. i'm sorry does Jacksonville not know how to grow effectively? "i'm jacksonville and i am going to invest millions of money on adding one highway lane at a time so that by the time we finish the project will have been outdated." The people who run the city are pathetic. It's time for the people to get to work and the stuff done that's needed and wanted!

[tufsu1]

Let me first preface this by saying I'm not defending JTA....but...

This is the just start of the system....eventually it will connect with the rest of the BRT line...in the meantime, many of the local buses that circulate through downtown will be re-routed to these streets.

$12 million pays for the following:

1. Dedicated lanes in some places (restriping)
2. New streetscape/sidewalks (Broad & Jefferson sure need it)
3. Shelters (I'm thinking they will put 2-3 of these at each stop)
4. Signal pre-emption/priority (extends the green time so buses can go through)

In other words you are defending JTA

nope...just explaining reality

[dlupercio]

The reality is that JTA keeps proving the same point; that the only thing they can do right is waste money.

[Fallen Buckeye]

Are the new dedicated bus lanes on Blanding eventually going to be tied into this system?

Also, this would have been a great opportunity to convert some of the one ways to two way streets since they were repainting stripes anyways. You may have to buy a few few new signals, but it'd be cheaper to do it with a project like this than going back later and doing it.

[thelakelander]

Not to piss in the BRT punch bowl but here is what Little Rock, Arkansas got for $20.5 million:

2.5 miles of real streetcar lines.  


http://www.fortworthgov.com/uploadedFiles/Planning_and_Development/Miscellaneous_(template)/Peer%20City%20Handout%20for%20distribution.pdf

1. In Jax, 2.2 miles gets you from the Prime Osborn (skyway connection) to Riverside's Park & King District.

2. $20.5 million/2.5 miles (Little Rock's cost to implement and initial system length) = $8.2 million/mile

3. $12 million (JTA DT BRT cost)/$20.5 million (Little Rock's DT streetcar cost) = 0.585

4. 59% of 2.5 miles = 1.48 miles of service

5. Prime Osborn (DT Skyway connection) to Margaret St (Five Points) = 1.48 miles in length

6. $12 million of no-frills streetcar = fixed mass transit connection between DT and Five Points.

So for roughly the same price as this initial DT BRT line that will parallel the skyway and won't spur economic development, you could have a no-frills streetcar line connecting the skyway and downtown with Five Points and stimulating market rate urban infill development in Brooklyn at the same time.  As for the buses, one could easily reroute them along the proposed route now with minimal expense.  

Since there is no traffic congestion along the BRT route, there's no immediate need to mess with the signals, rebuild streets or restrip lines.  So for roughly the same costs, we could implement the DT BRT route and establish a streetcar connection between DT and Five Points, providing an economic boost to a distressed urban neighborhood in the process.  This stuff really makes one think that we're getting the short end of the stick.

Just some food for thought when you're out talking to 2011 Mayoral candidates about potential issues to rally around.

[tufsu1]

If by 'reality' you mean a potential city wide system that hasnt been built yet, but which will cost a billion dollars if implemented at the exclusion of rail, then we do not share the same definition of reality.

I see no reason to change the word from 'defend.'  but thanks for the explanation of the money breakdown.

without getting in another argument, JTA's current BRT plan is $12 million for the downtown portion....they also are planning about 70 miles of radial lines (southeast, east, north, southwest, and south) at about $2.5 million/mile (includes design, permitting and construction)....so really we're talking about $175 million.

The $1 billion plan got scrapped three yeas ago

[thelakelander]

http://www.fortworthgov.com/uploadedFiles/Planning_and_Development/Miscellaneous_(template)/Peer%20City%20Handout%20for%20distribution.pdf

Btw, according to the linked study, $400 million in TOD and 600 residential units had been constructed within 2 blocks of Little Rock's streetcar alignment between 2004 (the year it opened) and 2008.  Needless to say, since then, their streetcar line has been expanded and there are plans to expand it again.

Little Rock River Rail Streetcar - Before: 2001, After: 2010


Wake up Jacksonville.  2011 is right around the corner!

[thelakelander]

By the way, as a part of JTA's service changes for September 2010, the L8 route will be modified to the proposed BRT North Corridor alignment with 15 minute headways.

Proposed BRT North Corridor Route


This should give us a good look at how popular such a service will be with choice riders along this corridor before sinking millions into rebuilding streets, striping lines and messing with traffic signals.

[Doctor_K]

Question 1) BRT as in the stupid looking linked buses? Or BRT as in, less-than-50-minute headways on normal buses?

Question 2) How do we get the people with a severe lack of vision, interest, or common sense out of the JTA?  Are they not appointed anyway?

Question 3) What's it going to matter when 2011 comes around, if no mayoral candidate is saying a damn thing about mass transit that doesn't involve buses?