Jacksonville Jam folds

[Coolyfett]

So how is the Jacksonville market , which is smaller than all of those, going to support a second sport when arguably none of these larger markets CAN support another team? And Oklahoma City? Hey, look...a bigger market WITHOUT a single team.

Help me out man. Give me the greater than, less than list of markets and what they are based on number wise. Please. I'm curious to know how Salt Lake City & Oklahoma City are bigger markets then Jacksonville.

How do we know those other markets CAN'T support or want another franchise??? Utah was once in New Orleans, Oklahoma was in Seattle, San Antonia was in the ABA. Portland and Orlando are the only true expansion teams. I also forgot about Memphis...

[Clem1029]

So how is the Jacksonville market , which is smaller than all of those, going to support a second sport when arguably none of these larger markets CAN support another team? And Oklahoma City? Hey, look...a bigger market WITHOUT a single team.

Help me out man. Give me the greater than, less than list of markets and what they are based on number wise. Please. I'm curious to know how Salt Lake City & Oklahoma City are bigger markets then Jacksonville.

How do we know those other markets CAN'T support or want another franchise??? Utah was once in New Orleans, Oklahoma was in Seattle, San Antonia was in the ABA. Portland and Orlando are the only true expansion teams. I also forgot about Memphis...

OK, we'll go with a slightly modified version of the rankings previously provided. Based on that list, SLC is a larger market by 220,000, and OKC is larger by about 21,000. Advantage SLC, but let's be honest, they already have their 1 pro team. OKC, there's an argument that they're at least equivalent markets, but since they have 0 teams and we already have ours, what's the logical argument that we deserve a second before that?

As for the question of why can't the other markets support a second team, that's a fair question. But from my count, there's at least 9 other markets (Memphis, OKC (assuming they get the Sonics), San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Columbus, Charlotte, Portland, Sacramento, Orlando) that are larger than us with only 1 pro team. Which means a significant argument needs to be made that Jax should be tried to support a second team first.

[thelakelander]

I think its safe to assume that Jacksonville will not be getting a second pro team anytime soon.

a. We're a second tier market that already has a NFL professional franchise.

b. There are several larger second tier markets with one or no professional franchises.

c. None of the four are seriously considering expanding their leagues.

d. We're in a state that already has multiple professional franchises for all four major leagues.  For example, we already have two NHL teams, two NBA teams, two MLB teams and Three NFL teams.

We're betting off strengthening our support for the Jags, because several of our peer cities (ex. like San Antonio) would love see them fail locally, because it gives them the chance to win a team through relocation (ex. Oklahoma City vs. Seattle with the NBA's Supersonics).

[copperfiend]

Agree Lake. To add to what you mentioned about Florida having multiple sports teams. None of the Florida teams outside of the Bucs the last 8-10 years have sold out on a regular basis.

[Ocklawaha]

Our two biggest curses are stadium and arena. Our NFL stadium is one of the largest in the America's, but our population isn't! We would do ourselves a huge favor when the time comes to expand facilities to SCALE the stadium and arena to the City.

I think if we had a nice dome or 1/2 covered stadium of some 50,000 seats, our Jaguars would be sold out 10 years in advance. Likewise, if we had an arena or soccer size field big enough to support a pro team but small enough to pay the bills, we would be in those leagues also.

Baseball? Okay we have a great stadium, now how do we get the Yankee's or Cubs to play here? EASY! We create the "HOME OF THE NEGRO LEAGUES", build a hall of fame, an amusement park, and roster a team of volunteer all-star "negro leauge" players from pro teams all around the country. Several times a year, our "Negro League - Jacksonville Red Caps" play the Yankee's or Cubbies in a charity expo game. I've got $$ that seys it will work. GO RED CAPS!

Jacksonville is a great sports town, it just needs some realistic thinking from City Hall.


Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Our two biggest curses are stadium and arena. Our NFL stadium is one of the largest in the America's, but our population isn't! We would do ourselves a huge favor when the time comes to expand facilities to SCALE the stadium and arena to the City.

I think if we had a nice dome or 1/2 covered stadium of some 50,000 seats, our Jaguars would be sold out 10 years in advance. Likewise, if we had an arena or soccer size field big enough to support a pro team but small enough to pay the bills, we would be in those leagues also.

What about the college games like the Florida-Georgia game and the Gator Bowl?  I assume the stadium was constructed to be this large because its used by more than just the NFL.

Baseball? Okay we have a great stadium, now how do we get the Yankee's or Cubs to play here? EASY! We create the "HOME OF THE NEGRO LEAGUES", build a hall of fame, an amusement park, and roster a team of volunteer all-star "negro leauge" players from pro teams all around the country. Several times a year, our "Negro League - Jacksonville Red Caps" play the Yankee's or Cubbies in a charity expo game. I've got $$ that seys it will work. GO RED CAPS!

Big vision, but what would be the costs and what's the chance that MLB would allow teams to play locally on a regular basis?

Jacksonville is a great sports town, it just needs some realistic thinking from City Hall.

While city hall can make improvements, at some point our market is what it is and giving the size, its only going to support so many things.  Multiple major professional sports franchises may not be one of those things for a 1.3 million metro in a state that already has multiple teams within a three to four hour drive.

[Ocklawaha]

I think it's a capacity issue. Even Miami wised up and went with a small stadium for the NFL. Better to have fewer seats in a sold-out stadium, and choices for the local sports dollars then to have it all in 80,000 empty seats before a first class team.

My thoughts on Negro League sports are slightly beyond the "idea" stage. I'm working with a few others to see if we can make this a reality. The games would not be regular scheduled NL or AL games but rather along the lines of expo games with hopes of 2 or 3 a year for starters. If we can drum up hte support within the league for college scolarships, or youth centers, I think they will come out of the woodwork to play with us. Our "Negro League" team would really be an all-star roster of volunteers from the majors and perhaps the minors too. It would be a fun game that allows players to relive history and show their ethnic pride. For the teams that allowed themselves to come down and play, there would be incredible good will and public relations and in the midst of all, Jacksonville would win big.

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

I think it's a capacity issue. Even Miami wised up and went with a small stadium for the NFL. Better to have fewer seats in a sold-out stadium, and choices for the local sports dollars then to have it all in 80,000 empty seats before a first class team.

What about the college games that can fill up an 80,000 seat stadium?

[Steve]

We have shrunk our stadium.  Alltel holds 67,000 for a Jaguar Game.  Most of them are club seats.  In fact, Jacksonville has the fourth lowest blackout number in the league, since club seats don't count towards the blackout number (there are only three cities that have to sell less tickets then us to get them on TV).

Honestly, another top tier pro sports team could be the death of them both.  Inevitably, there would be people that leave the Jaguars to get NBA or NHL tickets, which would hurt the other team.  Not to mention, with football, there are 8 games, on sundays or monday nights.  With any other sports, you will get a bunch of Tuesday or Wednesday night games, that you need to put butts in the seats for, which in this market is very difficult.

[fightingosprey07]

If the size of the market is determined by the amount of homes with a tv, maybe wayne weaver should buy a cheap tv for every tv-less home in the area. or, even better, sony could donate 100,000 $100 tvs in exchange for naming rights to the stadium for a couple years. anybody have any idea how many households there are with no tv? and how does nielsen come up with these numbers?