Jacksonville Jam folds

[Radio Talk Show Host]

Yes we used to have a basketball team. Why did we build that big arena? With hockey out and no arena football and very little hope of there ever having a successful basketball team, maybe I am missing something, but the dump that was the old arena maybe should have stayed around just to support one or all of these three sports. Cheaper rent (along with a downtown location) might be the key to success.
SPECIAL THANKS TO AM1460 SPORTS TALK SHOW "INSIDE THE GAME" FOR REPORTING THIS STORY IN DEPTH FIRST. 6-7PM WEEKNIGHTS

[Radio Talk Show Host]

ANYBODY ELSE BEEN TO DOLLAR BEER THURSDAYS there is one tomorrow at JAX ICE. 12 OUNCE CANS SERVED BY YOURS TRULY

[jeh1980]

Yes we used to have a basketball team. Why did we build that big arena? With hockey out and no arena football and very little hope of there ever having a successful basketball team, maybe I am missing something, but the dump that was the old arena maybe should have stayed around just to support one or all of these three sports. Cheaper rent (along with a downtown location) might be the key to success.
SPECIAL THANKS TO AM1460 SPORTS TALK SHOW "INSIDE THE GAME" FOR REPORTING THIS STORY IN DEPTH FIRST. 6-7PM WEEKNIGHTS

I don't know. I think that the reason why we built a bigger arena was the fact that the teams were not satisfied with locker rooms at the old coliseum and that the floor was 16 feet too short. We'll soon get another team that will be successful someday.

[thelakelander]

The old arena should have been kept.  It could have been converted into a musuem or something that complemented the stadium district.  As for the new arena, I believe it was built to help Jacksonville land concerts and events that had been passing the city by.

[copperfiend]

Yes we used to have a basketball team. Why did we build that big arena? With hockey out and no arena football and very little hope of there ever having a successful basketball team, maybe I am missing something, but the dump that was the old arena maybe should have stayed around just to support one or all of these three sports. Cheaper rent (along with a downtown location) might be the key to success.
SPECIAL THANKS TO AM1460 SPORTS TALK SHOW "INSIDE THE GAME" FOR REPORTING THIS STORY IN DEPTH FIRST. 6-7PM WEEKNIGHTS

The dimensions of the coliseum were not large enough to support a regulation hockey rink. Also, since building the new Arena, the has hosted the Team USA basketball, the opening round of the NCAA Mens Basketball tournament, regular season college basketball games featuring UF and FSU, WWE and not too mention musical acts that would not have played the old coliseum. And don't forget the extra money brought in by the club seats and skyboxes in the new arena. The coliseum had neither.

[adamh0903]

I dont think the old arena could have saved the jam, teams like that usually dont last that long...Now I used to like going to hockey games at the new arena

[Ocklawaha]

It's more a matter of risk vs return. Until someone decides to do the Wayne Weaver and risk it all to bring in a team that competes in a league worthy of Jacksonville, these teams will continue to come and go. No building is going to save a team when the play-bill is "Tonight only, the Jacksonville Giants vs the Mayberry Rug Rats..." It's not even a matter of "Growing the sport" or "learning the game." Give me Jacksonville Giants vs the Los Angeles Lakers and we have a date with destiny. Our city has been low-balled long enough and I think we're seeing a knee jerk reaction to always limited entertainment dollars.

Ocklawaha

[I-10east]

Yeah, the Jam are only a fraction of ill-fated minor-league B-ball franchises to fold in Jax. It seems like alot of things have folded these days. A whole buncha airlines like Frontier, and Skybus, the AAFL(that would've been laughable if it would've started; Watching a buncha Gator, and Nole has-beens like C.Leak do it one more time for the road)   

[thebrokenforum]

Sad. What is more frustrating though is our local media’s complete lack of interest in these small market sports teams that play here. How can we expect to get bigger teams interested here if we can’t even support the small ones? I guess the Sun get some decent coverage but what about the Barracudas?? They are a good team. They’re going for the championship again. I’ve been to the games at jax Ice and the people there are mostly families looking for some fun and cheap entertainment. Why not try and grow that audience? Now I don’t expect their popularity to be high…but if they got some coverage it might improve. The same goes for the now defunct Jam or any other sport that is here in this city and ignored. It’s ridiculous. A little coverage goes a long way; a franchise cannot survive without it.

[Ocklawaha]

I think there is a flaw in these thoughts... I won't go to a game where Jacksonville is forced to play Valdosta or Green Cove Springs on a sports field. This is not to snob up, but I just can't imagine Chicago, Atlanta, Miami pros playing LuLu or Two Egg, Florida. Buy your tickets today for the Two Egg Twister/Jacksonville Jaguar game in August. Naw, put us in pin stripes and let us pick on someone our own size and I'll see you in the park! There is just no evidence that in order to be a success in Jacksonville, you must first be able to sell an inferior sport, game or league. It's kind of like saying in order to enjoy a good steak you have to be able to eat and enjoy doggie deposits.

Ocklawaha

[Clem1029]

I think there is a flaw in these thoughts... I won't go to a game where Jacksonville is forced to play Valdosta or Green Cove Springs on a sports field. This is not to snob up, but I just can't imagine Chicago, Atlanta, Miami pros playing LuLu or Two Egg, Florida. Buy your tickets today for the Two Egg Twister/Jacksonville Jaguar game in August. Naw, put us in pin stripes and let us pick on someone our own size and I'll see you in the park! There is just no evidence that in order to be a success in Jacksonville, you must first be able to sell an inferior sport, game or league. It's kind of like saying in order to enjoy a good steak you have to be able to eat and enjoy doggie deposits.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here, simply based on the market factors involved with professional sports teams. Check out the 07/08 market ranking comparisons. The most important thing to point out is after Jax on the list (at 49 - also the highest it's been this century), there's only one city with more than one professional sport teams, and that's New Orleans (which a - I think we can all agree is a special case and b - is completely at risk of losing the Hornets simply due to the market realities).

As much as it pains me to say this, the current Jacksonville sports scene reflects precisely what our market ranking indicates - Jacksonville, on the whole, is a minor league market. Not only that, but if memory serves, the one pro team here in town needed to use some strategic tarp placements to cover up some seats in order to generate "sellouts," and only ranked 23 in attendance anyways.

Whether we want to admit it or not, Jacksonville doesn't compare to the cities listed "Chicago, Atlanta, Miami") in market terms. The way the leagues see the media markets, the teams Jacksonville has now has us "...picking on someone our own size."

[adamh0903]

I will have to disagree with you that Jacksonville is a Minor League town. First you mention the fact that we had to cover up seats to get "sale-outs but failed to mention that at the original stadium size of 73,000 seats it would be the 9th biggest stadium in the league in the 2nd smallest market. You also failed to mention that even with the seats covered up The Jaguars still draw more people than Chicago, Cowboys, steelers and raiders. All more teams with years more history than Jacksonville. Weeky Jaguars radio programs out proform local drive time radio almost 3 to 1 and I dont have the exact figures in front of me right now but  local tv ratings for a jaguars game is nearly 19 to 1, compared to a 14-1 for Florida/Georgia game. You now have a season ticket renewal rate of over 80% up from around 72% from last year, which was up from around 68% the year before that. I know all this because my company just signed a mega advertising deal with the Jaguars and we have done extensive market research to determine if the city of jacksonville and jaguars were a viable nfl city and franchise. It was our conclusion that NFL is king in jacksonville and only getting bigger.

[Coolyfett]

I agree with Ock a million times. Someone stated the Arena is TOO BIG??? Really? 16,000 seats is too big?? Since when? They built that place too small. Again Jax leaders thinking small again. The Jacksonville leaders need to travel more and get out of their bubble. Another gripe....superstars are still pacing the market over. Jacksonville built the new Arena, but when you look at the superstars show dates you are still seeing stuff like this...

Philadelphia 4-7
Washington DC 4-10
Charlotte 4-13
Atlanta 4-17
Orlando 4-20
Miami 4-23

I mean what the hell man?!?!?

The NBA could work in Jacksonville...It just takes time to build a strong fan base but it can be built. San Antonio, Utah, Orlando, Sacramento, Portland...how are these markets better then Jacksonville In YOUR opinion?? Oh yea i forgot Oklahoma is getting a team...wow.

[Clem1029]

I will have to disagree with you that Jacksonville is a Minor League town. First you mention the fact that we had to cover up seats to get "sale-outs but failed to mention that at the original stadium size of 73,000 seats it would be the 9th biggest stadium in the league in the 2nd smallest market.

Honestly, that stat is a giant "so what?" It only indicates one of two things - either the city/league planners screwed up big time in estimating how much of a draw the Jags would be, or that it was designed with the intention of other massive events outside of the Jags (and anyone want to take bets on when the next Super Bowl will be awarded to Jax?).

You also failed to mention that even with the seats covered up The Jaguars still draw more people than Chicago, Cowboys, steelers and raiders. All more teams with years more history than Jacksonville.

If you want to focus on the NFL, that's your prerogative. My understanding is that the discussion is having MULTIPLE professional sports teams in a town, which Chicago, Dallas, Pittsburgh, and Oakland/LA all have. We can argue over how much support a given team receives at any given point, but the fact is THOSE markets make economic sense to have multiple teams. Regardless of what Jax has, we can't shake a stick to those markets.

Weeky Jaguars radio programs out proform local drive time radio almost 3 to 1 and I dont have the exact figures in front of me right now but  local tv ratings for a jaguars game is nearly 19 to 1, compared to a 14-1 for Florida/Georgia game. You now have a season ticket renewal rate of over 80% up from around 72% from last year, which was up from around 68% the year before that. I know all this because my company just signed a mega advertising deal with the Jaguars and we have done extensive market research to determine if the city of jacksonville and jaguars were a viable nfl city and franchise. It was our conclusion that NFL is king in jacksonville and only getting bigger.

OK, great...we can generally support 1 sport team for 8 weeks out of a season. Does that support stick with, say, a professional baseball or basketball team in the city? Or on the flip side, does an additional team get the support with the Jags being so dominant?

I agree with Ock a million times. Someone stated the Arena is TOO BIG??? Really? 16,000 seats is too big?? Since when? They built that place too small. Again Jax leaders thinking small again. The Jacksonville leaders need to travel more and get out of their bubble. Another gripe....superstars are still pacing the market over. Jacksonville built the new Arena, but when you look at the superstars show dates you are still seeing stuff like this...

Philadelphia 4-7
Washington DC 4-10
Charlotte 4-13
Atlanta 4-17
Orlando 4-20
Miami 4-23

I mean what the hell man?!?!?

These are honestly curiousity questions - what was the last single event to sell out all 16,000 seats? Plus, what was the last SERIES of events that sold out all 16,000 seats?

More importantly, I understand city pride and all, but don't you think it's a little much to compare the Jax market to the #s 4, 8, 9, 16, 19, and 25 markets, when we're sitting at #49? Maybe there's an argument about Charlotte in there...maybe.

The NBA could work in Jacksonville...It just takes time to build a strong fan base but it can be built. San Antonio, Utah, Orlando, Sacramento, Portland...how are these markets better then Jacksonville In YOUR opinion?? Oh yea i forgot Oklahoma is getting a team...wow.

Ok, time to play a little game - with the cities you listed, let's count how many sports franchises they have:
San Antonio - 1 (Spurs)
Salt Lake (Utah) - 1 (Jazz)
Orlando - 1 (Magic)
Sacramento - 1 (Kings)
Portland - 1 (Trailblazers)

So how is the Jacksonville market , which is smaller than all of those, going to support a second sport when arguably none of these larger markets CAN support another team? And Oklahoma City? Hey, look...a bigger market WITHOUT a single team.

Listen, don't get me wrong...I enjoy living in Jacksonville (I'm a relatively recent transplant from up north). But let's not kid ourselves - sports leagues and franchises follow the money, which is dictated by all sorts of market factors. Our market just doesn't stack up to the places we'd like to compare to. Money doesn't follow teams, teams follow money. If we want to hand out some sort of blame, throw it at our city leaders who aren't able to come up with something that grows our market to a point of appeal (outside of the natural migration to the Sun Belt that's happening everywhere). But until the city develops more than where it's at currently, it's completely wishful thinking to say we should have or have a right to more pro teams.

[9a is my backyard]

The NBA could work in Jacksonville...It just takes time to build a strong fan base but it can be built. San Antonio, Utah, Orlando, Sacramento, Portland...how are these markets better then Jacksonville In YOUR opinion?? Oh yea i forgot Oklahoma is getting a team...wow.

Ok, time to play a little game - with the cities you listed, let's count how many sports franchises they have:
San Antonio - 1 (Spurs)
Salt Lake (Utah) - 1 (Jazz)
Orlando - 1 (Magic)
Sacramento - 1 (Kings)
Portland - 1 (Trailblazers)
[/quote]

First just let me say, I think this is a fascinating discussion.  I just wanted to add on to this comment about the other 'small market cities.'  While I do agree that the 5 cities above only have one 'major' sports franchise, San Antonio has a WNBA team (not sure what that would be classified, but I would say mid-major sport at best), Salt Lake has an Arena Football team (I would classify that as a mid-major sport; it's not huge, but the league has clearly developed a strategy to stick around) as well as an MLS team (mid-major again?), Orlando has an Arena Football team, and Sacramento has a WNBA team.

I do agree that the Jaguars have a solid following in Jacksonville, but it's hard for me to see a sport with more of a "commitment" than 8 Sundays and the occasional Monday doing really well here.  Jacksonville is big and, for some, coming downtown can be a pain.  Football games on a Sunday are easier because it's not that big of a deal if it takes up your whole day, but getting 12,000-20,000 to come consistently, 41+ times a year....I just don't see that happening here.  At least not right now.

Also, is it better to be known as a city with one sports team that the city supports, or a city with multiple sports teams, at least one of which plays home games to a crowd comprised of a large portion of the visiting team's fans (i.e., Kansas City Royals, the Rays in Tampa, Florida Marlins, etc.)?

I would love to have more options when it comes to sporting and music/entertainment events in Jacksonville, and I can maybe see it coming in the future, but at the moment there's at least the perception that Jacksonville is too small of a market to support these options (ex: http://www.folioweekly.com/folioblog/?p=641).  I'll let the people on this site who know far more about these things than I do battle it out as to whether or not it's true that we're too small of a market, but I think that perception alone is enough to keep our options limited for at least the next few years.