Hardware Store in Five Points

[Dog Walker]

Anyone remember Time Square Hardware(formerly) on University?

I remember Times Square Hardware. I had a friend who worked there, in high school, I think.

Since I moved I've been running to Curry-Thomas in St. Nicholas for my smaller hardware needs (razor knifes, garden tools, etc). Sure is convenient and I like the feel of going into a locally-owned place that's been around since my dad was a kid.

A hardware store would be great. I also think an art store would be fantastic in Five Points, something to compete with Reddi Arts. I was in an art supply store near the Art Institute of Chicago a year ago and it would be great if Jax had something similar (not that Reddi Arts isn't great - but not exactly in a walkable area). One thing they don't need is another clothing or antique store and it'd be nice to see something besides a restaurant or gift shop open in the area.

The space on the corner of Margaret and Lomax that is now an antique mall used to be Towers Hardware.  I think it closed sometime in the middle or late '80's when the big box stores opened up.

Like the rest of you, I will drive to Curry-Thomas Hardware in St. Nicholas where there are polite, knowledgeable folk including the two Curry brothers rather than go to the Curry-Thomas on Edgewood Ave. and deal with the slow motion nephews there.  The one in St. Nicholas also has a first rate gunsmith and gun shop.

[Bativac]

Five Points used to be a more diversified commercial center. San Marco the same. Anyone remember Peterson's five and dime store. There was almost nothing that store didn't carry. Now we are losing the news stand.

Completely agree about the hardware but not that it has to be a franchise type store. Small and local is good too. And, while I'm wishing - a good bookstore like the kind you find in Fernandina or St. Marys, GA.

Peterson's was so cool. I loved that place as a kid. I think it closed when I was still a kid, or a teenager.

An interesting bookstore would be neat in Five Points, too. Something like Jerry's Bookshop in the Town and Country center, only surrounded by actual shops instead of empty storefronts.

[JaxResident]

I totally agree. Doesn't have to be a franchise hardware store. As long as it can provide needed goods and services, and be an asset to the community then great!

[lowlyplanner]

I would like to respectfully disagree.

I think what 5 Points needs in the Fuel space is something that will draw people from all over town and attract spillover business for the other merchants.  A hardware store that caters to locals just won't do that.  A large art supply store might, or a large chain clothing store (I'm thinking of American Apparel or Urban Outfitters).

Also, it's increasingly hard to survive as an independent hardware store (or bookstore for that matter).  People enjoy and make use of the selection of random stuff and staff expertise, and then go enjoy the lower prices at the chain stores (even Ock admitted to it).

[adamh0903]

Also, it's increasingly hard to survive as an independent hardware store (or bookstore for that matter).  People enjoy and make use of the selection of random stuff and staff expertise, and then go enjoy the lower prices at the chain stores (even Ock admitted to it).

Ace Hardware would give you the best of both worlds. A locally owned franchise with the friendly service and knowledge that you would expect from your neighborhood hardware store and also a store that can take advantage of buying power from nearly 5000 nationwide retail stores.

[JaxResident]

I doubt that you will ever see a large chain like Urban Outfitters in a location like Five Points.

Retail chains like Urban Outfitters are going to look where there are vast amounts of availability for parking space (STJC, Mandarin, River City off 95 & Duval Road). People who shop at the town center or Avenues Mall won't come to Five Points to shop at an Urban Outfitters. There are not enough chain retailers in Five Points to bring them there. They want the convenience of having it all in one location and unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) Five Points is not the place.

People live in an area of Riverside, Five Points, Murray Hill and Avondale for a variety of reasons. Many chose so because of the architecture, older structures, parks, and sense of history. Also, there exists a lot of cultural diversity in this part of town.

Not everyone chooses to shop at Lowe's or Home Depot for their hardware needs. Many people would prefer the intimacy of dealing with a local neighborhood business. True it might be cheaper going to Lowe's or HD, but is the experience the same? Is the level of customer service the same? In my opinion it isn't.

A vast number of people who opt to live in the 5 Points neighborhood do so for the availability and convenience of being able to walk or ride a bike in order to shop, dine out, utilize the many parks, etc. It's a matter of personal choice. When I lived in Boston, I always gave my business to the inner city hardware stores, rather than frequenting places like Lowe's or Home Depot.

[Dog Walker]

Jax, You are right on the button.  And a REAL hardware store, not a hardware-garden-gift-florist store would do well in Riverside.  Curry-Thomas in St. Nicholas does.

[Lucasjj]

I think a place like Urban Outfitters would be great. I don't typically shop there, but it has the drawing power for people and fits the feel of the area.

There is one in Atlanta that is in a small shopping strip plaza, that also includes a small movie theatre. There is probably more parking, but I think it would be a similar setup to what Five Points offers. I also believe the model they use at their downtown Savannah store could be copied, since it is a smaller store that utilizes both floors.

Here is the streetview. You can't tell it is an Urban Outfitters from the picture, but it is left of the theatre.

EDIT: I don't know how to link street view. Here is the map link, and you will have to click Location "D" Street View.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&wrapid=tlif12847483138062&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=urban+outfitters+atlanta+ga&fb=1&gl=us&hq=urban+outfitters&hnear=Atlanta,+GA&ei=QLSTTKblFNKmnQfHluyyCA&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CB8QtgMwAA

[JaxResident]

I certainly don't disagree with the idea of an Urban Outfitters, but where is the draw for a potential customer to shop? After they are done shopping at the UO store and want to look at more clothing stores, what are the options? Most of the clothing shops in the area are boutiques geared toward women's clothing (no offense ladies).

Most stores like Urban Outfitters tend to place themselves in locations where there are similar or comparative retailers (ex. Abercrombie, JCrew, etc). Five Points isn't going to offer that. Look at where all of the major clothing chains and retail shopping exist in Jacksonville. They are at the town center, avenues mall, Phillips Highway, Bay Meadows, and at River City off 95.

Do you see a presence of stores like Urban Outfitters in downtown Jax? No, and you probably never will as long as the current folks in leadership here stick with the same negative and destructive pattern of thinking. In downtown Philadelphia, there is a K mart retailer in the Urban Core. It does well, as city dwellers shop there and can get to it on foot. They are not forced to venture out in their car to the suburbs to shop.

The greater majority of Jacksonville residents' drive EVERYWHERE. Unless you live in a neighborhood where walk-ability is a way of life or even an available option, you will drive to where you can do one stop shopping. Five Points is not going to provide that for the typical Jax resident who lives in Southside, Arlington, Mandarin, etc.

[fieldafm]

The rent for the old Fuel place is pretty high.  I would go out on a limb and say the rent is significantly higher than Curry Thomas in St Nicholas(and they sell and service guns... perhaps one of the best gunsmiths in town quite honestly).  And, again from personal experience, a few years ago the build out cost was pretty prohibitive.  A hardware store would have to bring in a decent amount of sales for it to be economically viable.  400k/year in sales isn't going to make that place worth the cost of opening up.

[lowlyplanner]

I was thinking of the one in downtown Savannah, on Broughton Street.

Savannah is not some super-fancy town.  10 years ago, that neighborhood was in the hood.  Now it's a healthy mix of specialty chain stores and unique indie stores.  People come for the chain stores, see the indies and often give them a shot.  Then they leave feeling a lot cooler than when they got there.



Riverside is a very walkable area, but 5 Points is only 1 block from an I-95 exit.  In order to really thrive, it has to attract people from all over town.  Sort of like local tourism.

Also, I thought Urban Outfitters was mainly women's clothing, geared to younger purchasers.  

[JaxResident]

I know so many people who live in Southside, Arlington, the Beaches, Bay Meadows, and Mandarin. They never venture to Riverside even though a highway exit of 95 is right there. They don't frequent downtown Jacksonville either.

Urban Outfitters is a mix retail store with a large variety of item SKU's- men's, ladies, some furniture, household items, etc. Depends on which store you go to, the amount of retail square footage, etc. Obviously, a space in an existing storefront is going to be less than new construction (say at a mall or town center like SJTC).

The rent for the space at the old Fuel location is expensive, as I would assume most of the retail spaces in 5 Points are. This begs the question as to how places like Fan's and Stoves, Hawthorn Hair Salon, Fuji Sushi, Pet Store, and many of the gift stores can last? Riverside Liquors seems to be holding its own as well.

I think that if you were to poll the majority of people who live in the Riverside/5 Points/Avondale/Murray Hill neighborhoods as to why they live here, they would say it is about being able to get around in so many instances without having to use a car a greater percentage of the time.

At this point, any presence of a store, shop or something instead of an empty storefront at 1037 Park Street would be an improvement.

[Bativac]

I would like to respectfully disagree.

I think what 5 Points needs in the Fuel space is something that will draw people from all over town and attract spillover business for the other merchants.  A hardware store that caters to locals just won't do that.  A large art supply store might, or a large chain clothing store (I'm thinking of American Apparel or Urban Outfitters).

Also, it's increasingly hard to survive as an independent hardware store (or bookstore for that matter).  People enjoy and make use of the selection of random stuff and staff expertise, and then go enjoy the lower prices at the chain stores (even Ock admitted to it).

I think a combination art store / local artists gallery would be great. The more I think about it the better I like the idea. Maybe it has a coffee bar or something. You might be right about the hardware store. That demographic is different than the "hip urban sophisticates" vibe that 5 Points has.

You definitely need something "different" enough from the surrounding shops to draw people in, and yet something that fills a need. Of course if there's already a new art store opening up over there (like fieldafm mentioned) then nevermind...

[JaxResident]

In densely populated urban neighborhoods, people look for access to the same availability of goods and services as to what is offered in the suburbs.

Let me give you a prime example. In Boston's South End Neighborhood (which is years ahead in urban sophistication) exists Warren Hardware. It has been open for more than 30 years in the same spot. They sell paint, lawn and garden supplies, make and cut keys, sell plumbing supplies, and so much more. The people they cater too are those people who live, work and play in that geographic neighborhood.

Do people who live out near the town center come to Riverside liquors on Park Street to buy wine? I doubt it. They probably shop at the big liquor store at the town center. Do people in Tinseltown come in from Southside to see a movie at the 5 points theater? Probably not, unless it is a "unique" flick not showing at any of the mainstream theaters around town.

People who shop at the Publix in 5 Points in all likelihood live with in a 5-10 block radius of this store. They come there and shop because it is in their neighborhood demographic.

Putting a hardware store in 5 Points is no different than putting a Cracker Barrel at River City Marketplace. The people who live closest to that location will go to it. If I live in Baymeadows down the road from Cracker Barrel and want their food, why would I drive all the way up 95 to River City to go to that location? I am going to go where the closest location is and where it is most convenient.


A hardware store may not make sense to someone who rarely comes to 5 Points other than to eat out or attend an event, but to the thousands of people who live in the 32204 zip code, having access to basic goods and services without being forced to waste gas driving all the way out to Southside, Baymeadows, Mandarin, Arlington or the Beaches it is a perfect fit.

The Curry Hardware store on Beach Blvd is successful because of its customer service, selection and "neighborhood" feel. Not everyone wants to drive all over hell and creation to buy a package of screws, garden hose, hammer, picture hangers, and other items from some big box retailer that offers little in the way of customer service.

[urbaknight]

It's good to see a verity of goods and services in five points. Maybe with a hardware store there, five points can be built up easier. Throw in a few skyscrapers and we won't need downtown, It would be like the village in Manhattan or height ashberry in San Francisco.