What To Do With The Shipyards?

[stjr]

My hope is this land is used as a provisional park and when the citizens and leaders in the community see what a wonderful asset that can be to downtown, it is determined to make it a permanent park.  That doesn't preclude some economic activities such as arts and crafts and souvenir kiosks, a bait and tackle shop on the pier, a restaurant or two, etc.  But, it should mostly be a park and public access.  By the way, the end of the piers should be a great spot for watching sunsets over the skyline and would make for some great postcard shots.

[arb]

I have a vision for the Shipyards! Though my vision probably won't come true, I'd still like to post about what I would do if I owned the Shipyards and if I was a developer. My hope is to make it a park that somewhat resembles the Navy Pier in Chicago (google it). My vision would be to have a park with attractions such as a ferry wheel, a Merry-Go-Round, a few concession stands, seating, an outdoor concert green, and a playground or something of that sort. Then I would incorparate an urban modern TOD. I envision a parking garage, but one that doesnt look like a boring ugly concrete structure. I also envision a promanade with a market and some shops, such as a fish and produce market, antiques, and a few restaurants. Last but not least, have a dock where you go and park your boat and explore the park. I would call it The Downtown Shipyard. I happen to believe if this little park called The Downtown Shipyards existed DT would attract more people which means more development, which means a bustling thirving Urban Core! Call me crazy but I think this could work

[ChriswUfGator]

I have a vision too! Just give me $40MM, I'll spend $200k on a seawall and $30k on a fence and run off with the rest of the money and you'll never see me again! Oh crap...nevermind...I forgot they already did that. Shucks.

[arb]

Mini amusement park! Ferris Wheel, rollcoaster, games, shopping, eating, housing. C'mon easy stuff.

Man, that would be so cool. Like a real boardwalk atmosphere. Imagine that against the city skyline.

They'd never do it. But it would be awesome.

That is essentially what Ben Carter's thoughts were on the site.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530697&searchtext=bankruptcy

Wow I had a vision for the land and it happens to be like a mini amusement park with retail, restuarants, and a TOD. I hope this really goes through!

[tufsu1]

I have a vision too! Just give me $40MM, I'll spend $200k on a seawall and $30k on a fence and run off with the rest of the money and you'll never see me again! Oh crap...nevermind...I forgot they already did that. Shucks.

you would only have to spend $200k on a seawall because the last land owner spent millions building the bulkhead...and don't forget remediating the property!

[Ocklawaha]

Guess where?

A giant wooden roller coaster, boardwalk-riverwalk, arcades, various kiddie rides, a couple of family interest museums such as maritime, railroad, firehouse... toss in some unusual retail, yeah, like maybe that Ikea or Bass pro or Rail Forest Cafe, (all three either on or along Hogans Creek"walk" and connected by boats, skyway and streetcar and wow, yeah, we'd be busting out the seams.

Well guess what folks, just in case Carter or us other Jaxson's really wanted a WORLD CLASS MUSEUM THAT NOT EVEN DISNEY COULD DUPLICATE?



The USS Independence, carrier, post WWII to date, last immediate post WWII era carrier to retire, awaiting being blown up and sunk! But in the meantime it IS available. The island would have to come off and be put back on later, but WOW would that be cool or what?



The USS Olympia, Cruiser, Spanish American War, earliest steel ship afloat anywhere in the world. 1898. Been in Philadelphia for years as the Number ONE attraction, but alas, they don't have money to dry dock here and repair the hull and other work so the Navy is planning to take her off NJ and SINK HER as a reef!



USS Charles Adams, OH YEAH, get-er-done swabies. Did you know that the "new" USS Hoel is a ship of the Charles Adams Class? The Hoel's namesake, a wwII tin-can was sunk in the Battle of Leyte Gulf but only after it and a couple of sister ships tangled with the worlds largest battle ship, and the entire Imperial Japanese Fleet  in what has to be the most lopsided fights of all time. They actually achieved two things that will probably stand as a record forever... They chased off the Japanese fleet, and most astounding after they sunk the Japanese Admrial returned with his flagship... Every enemy sailor was decorating the railing, all at attention and saluting the brave American Sailors, before they left they tossed some canned fruit to our boys. The Adams and it's class have some great stories to tell.

Hell toss in the USS JACKSONVILLE when she is retired in a few years and we'd have our own fleet for visitors.

The other places with these ships or "thinking about it" don't have the money + don't have the tourist traffic to repay a bond issue. GUESS WHAT? WE DO! (Over 118,000 vehicles per day come down I-95, and the population of St. John's has jumped 108%, Nassau is already one of the fastest growing in the State)

Oh and a little aside I'll let y'all in on, I've been talking to certain corporations about a ZEPPELIN MUSEUM with mock-ups of Hindenburg travel, the GRAF and/or LOS ANGELES. Not only are they interested, if I hear from our PORT and AIRPORT AUTHORITIES, they are interested in basing a REAL ZEPPELIN here.

Cool or what?

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Hell toss in the USS JACKSONVILLE when she is retired in a few years and we'd have our own fleet for visitors.

For the uninitiated, Ock, let's let them know the USS Jax is a submarine.

PEARL HARBOR (June 2, 2010) The Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Jacksonville (SSN 699) departs Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam for a scheduled deployment to the western Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Ronald Gutridge/Released)
http://outontheporch.org/2010/06/08/uss-jacksonville-deploys-to-western-pacific/

USS Jacksonville (SSN-699), a Los Angeles-class attack submarine, is the only ship of the United States Navy to be named for Jacksonville, Florida. The ship is nicknamed "The Bold One". The contract to build her was awarded to the Electric Boat Division of General Dynamics Corporation in Groton, Connecticut on 24 January 1972 and her keel was laid down on 21 February 1976. She was launched  on 18 November 1978 using the pontoon system designed for the launching of the Ohio Class Trident Submarines. The Jacksonville was sponsored by Mrs. Charles E. Bennett, and commissioned on 16 May 1981, with Captain Robert B. Wilkinson in command.

Jacksonville’s operations have included a variety of fleet exercises and deployments including two around-the-world cruises in 1982 and 1985, deployments to the western Atlantic Ocean in 1983, 1986, 1993 and 1994, and deployments to the Mediterranean Sea in 1987 and 1993. In 1988, Jacksonville participated in a shock trials test program for Los Angeles class submarines, which was followed by a three-year major modernization overhaul in Norfolk Naval Shipyard.

Jacksonville was involved in a collision with a Saudi container ship near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay in May 1996.

On 20 December 2004 a small fire broke out aboard Jacksonville while it was undergoing a refueling overhaul at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. The fire was immediately extinguished and the reactor was never in danger, though a shipyard firefighter and a sailor were treated at the scene for smoke inhalation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jacksonville_%28SSN-699%29

[fieldafm]

Wow I had a vision for the land and it happens to be like a mini amusement park with retail, restuarants, and a TOD. I hope this really goes through!

It is interesting to note, Mr Carter advocates such a 'vision' yets wants nothing to do with it himself... you would think a developer of his stature would be more than willing to put his money on the line if it was such a great idea 

[heights unknown]

Make it a park, museum, and residential development with shopping and other amenities and amusements available.  What I am saying is, tie up a retired Navy ship at the pier that will be there, in which the ship will be a museum, have a hotel along with residential high rises there, and have street level shopping within the hotel and/or residential towers, along with a parking garage (possibly within the residential and hotel tower), and of course have a large park that will contain a large grandstand for concerts and out of town venues, and just make it with a festival atmosphere not only for the people living nearby, but for all residents of Jacksonville. You could also have one super high rise in which the hotel is on the first say 20 floors, and the upper floors (next 40 or 50) would be residential (this might be much for Jax but hey, let's go whole hog).  That super highrise could be in the area of 700 feet tall or higher.

By the way, that Carrier in the above pic is the USS INDEPENDENCE (CV-62) which was commissioned in the 1950's and retired in the 1990's; it is not a World War II Aircraft Carrier.  It is a post World War II Carrier.

"HU"

[thelakelander]

Wow I had a vision for the land and it happens to be like a mini amusement park with retail, restuarants, and a TOD. I hope this really goes through!

It is interesting to note, Mr Carter advocates such a 'vision' yets wants nothing to do with it himself... you would think a developer of his stature would be more than willing to put his money on the line if it was such a great idea 

Carter is no dummy.  Unless heavily subsidized by taxpayers, he would be flushing good money down the toilet.

[CS Foltz]

Why could we not make I95, at the county line.....north and south, along with I10 a toll road? Virgina did it!  We could bond it out and poof......instant income! Johnny wants to balance the books since we are $58 Million in the hole, how much could we take in? Toll Booths could be put in cheaply and go from there! People keep saying that road taxes are keeping up with the upkeep.............well what about this? Money to do something with the Ship Yards!

[fieldafm]

Carter is no dummy.  Unless heavily subsidized by taxpayers, he would be flushing good money down the toilet.

Exactly!

I spent part of my day reading about the failed Renaissance Place TOD/Sports Complex Skyway extension.(would be a GREAT story for you folks to do)

LandMar wasn't the first developer to toy with massive residential development around this site.

[tufsu1]

Why could we not make I95, at the county line.....north and south, along with I10 a toll road? Virgina did it!

yes...the state did it...as did many others....but a County has noi jurisdiction over interestate facilities

[fieldafm]

I spent some time on my day off researching this site.  Certain possibilities are becoming more and more intriguing

http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-09-14/story/summit-prime-osborn-will-look-ecotourism-options

In a state where tourism is often driven by the big resorts and bigger roller coasters, Wednesday's St. Johns River Summit at the Prime Osborn Convention Center will hear about a low-tech idea to draw tourists and tourist dollars: Trails for walking, cycling and paddling.

"The case I'm going to make," said Herb Hiller, a writer and longtime activist for a sustainable Florida, "is that trails have a role in economic development that has never been recognized in Florida. In the case of the St. Johns River basin, it was a hotbed of tourism 150 years ago, but died with the coming of trains and then automobiles.

"We have an almost blank slate to work from, but this time we can do it green."

So Hiller and landscape architect Steve Davis will lead a presentation today to the various decision makers from the 12 St. Johns River counties to combine their efforts to develop a system of land and water trails from Mayport to Sanford.

Florida is hardly just getting started on this. It has 1,700 miles of trails as part of the official multi-use trail network, with another 6,000 miles identified for future development. In 2008, Florida received American Trails' first Best Trails State Award for its system of greenways and trails.

Those trails had 4 million visitors last year and generated an economic impact of $95 million, said Jim Wood, assistant director of the state's Office of Greenways and Trails.

Unlike the more wilderness-oriented Appalachian Trail, many of these trails go through or near small towns that are capitalizing on trail usage, such as Inverness on the 46-mile Withlacoochee State Trail in the east-central part of the state.

Wood pointed to the Great Allegheny Passage, a 135-mile rail trail that runs from Pittsburgh into Maryland and connects with the C&O Towpath to complete a 320-mile trail all the way to Washington, D.C. An estimated 700,000 trips are taken on the Passage each year. A study found that the Passage generated more than $40 million in direct spending in 2008, up from $7.3 million in 2002. Businesses along the Great Allegheny Passage attributed one-fourth of their income to the trail, and almost two thirds saw an increase in business because of their proximity to the trail.

Amy Camp, program manager for Trail Town, which works on economic development along the Allegheny Passage, said that 46 businesses have opened and another 12 expanded in the three years in the small towns along the trail.

Some, like bike shops, are completely attributable to the trail, she said, while the restaurants and bed and breakfasts that have opened there get a large amount of the business from trail users.

In Florida, the Pinellas Trail is 34 miles through the cities and towns of Pinellas County.

Bob Ironsmith, director of economic development for Dunedin, said that town's downtown was blighted with 30 percent vacancy until the trail was built right through it. Now, the vacancy rate is less than five percent.

"It's added such a sense of vibrancy," Ironsmith said. "People come into downtown on it, visit the shops, get a bite to eat and go on their way. I can't imagine downtown without it. It's that important to us."

By building more of those trails, Hiller said, we encourage tourists who spend money and help Florida pay for the trails, which are then available to residents.

"Tourism in Florida is run by marketers," Hiller said. "It's all about heads in beds. But the people in charge of making tourism happen in Florida tend to think short term. But tourism can have a big impact in policy making.

"Tourists are people who are temporarily in Florida with money to spend. The question is how can we get them to assist in local policies, in our own recreation, health and fitness, alternate transportation, while at the same time supplying heads in beds?"

Several events are already in the works to highlight the state's trails:

n On Oct. 4, Visit Florida, the state's official tourism website, will launch a site dedicated to the state's trail system, including accommodations and restaurants along the way.

"If it gets a lot of hits," Hiller said, "we'll have powerful ammunition to ask for more money for trails."

n Hiller will write a guidebook and phone application that will highlight neighborhoods along the St. Johns River.

n Next spring, Bike Florida will host a 10-day pilot tour that will include Jacksonville to DeLand by train, by bicycle around the top of Lake Monroe to Sanford, two days by kayak to the river hamlet of Volusia, pontoon boat to Welaka, then bike again to Green Cove Springs, to Orange Park and back to Jacksonville.

[CS Foltz]

This idea does have many many possibilities!