Breathing Life back into the Jacksonville Landing

[Ocklawaha]

Love all the ideas for a fresh market, streetcar (privately financed, of course) and street side activity area.
However I don't think the city should force downtown parking businesses to put up signage advertising their product.  Can't government help things along without passing an ordinance or regulation?  Couldn't the city just work the parking businesses and other downtown merchants and come up with something that is voluntary?

I think Stephen and I spoke of this in person recently, the Trolley is turning out to be a pretty good deal, now we just need to expand the hours...and I hear thats a definite possibility for the near future.

For CERTAIN Stephen, Lakelander, and a handfull of others are talking about REAL STREETCARS on REAL TRACKS with REAL WIRE OVERHEAD. Faux trolleys will NEVER create a tourist boom, and not in any way gauge the success of a real streetcar line. Even the craftsmanship in our PCT Trolleys, Stephen raved about in another thread, will pale in the light of the old world craftsmanship in a REAL streetcar. It's the difference in fine imported carvings and woodcuttings and a really pretty mobile home. They both have wood inside, and are both well made, but worlds apart.

As for privately financed, THAT is possible. It might happen as either a musuem, a for-profit corportation or some of both (we already have them up and running as corporations). It might also be a City function. In any case it should not damage the hands-off view of some political party's. A mile long test streetcar line could be strung down Water Street, and perhaps a tiny bit of Lee or Davis for example. A small museum and shop at Lee or Davis, near the massive parking, serves the landing AND the Skyway, AND the Transit Center, AND any new BAY STREET STATION development area. The streetcar museum itself will draw about 500,000 visitors per year downtown. Backed up by TWO regional marketing firms, including a recent one. That's about 6 Super Bowl games full of "NEVER BEEN TO JAX FOR ANYTHING" trouists. They visit the museum, ride the streetcars, and gosh-gee-batman, they end up on River Walk, the Hyatt, Bay Street Station, Omni, Landing, Florida Theater and God knows where else. Suddenly that empty "parking garage site" becomes a new highrise, Then another and another, Soon with streetcar and skyway expansion, another dozen go up. The building boom reaches ONE BILLION DOLLARS! WHY? Because THAT is what streetcars are causing to happen in cities all over the country. 1 Billion, 1.4 Billion, 5 Billion, 2.3 Billion etc... Now just how much would that REALLY cost us even if the city financed 100% of it? Factor in the new taxes, tourism, and building boom and we end up with a net gain of hundreds of millions OVER ANY JTA BUS PLAN!

AMAZING? Maybe so, but the facts are hard numbers, industry published and internationally accepted.

WE CAN AND SHOULD DO THIS NOW...

"CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! WENT THE TROLLEY..."

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Now just how much would that REALLY cost us even if the city financed 100% of it?

A lot cheaper than the money we've already wasted on the courthouse site.

[Galois]

Easy. Bring Club Paris Back. 

[jacksonvilleconfidential]

Um. NO! Check our review.

http://www.jacksonvilleconfidential.com/2007/02/club-paris-review.html

[brainstormer]

I have to agree that the Landing is very non-family oriented.  I was recently in Baltimore and their Inner Harbor is awesome.  Not only is there a great mix of upscale chain restaurants, but also smaller cafes and retail.  There were many families with kids as well as the traditional tourist groups, cameras in hand.  You can rent paddle boats and their many unique museums are all geared towards family enjoyment.  I also think opening up the landing so one could see the river from Laura Street would be a huge improvement.

[WhatsUpJacksonville]

I agree that the layout of the Landing is all wrong for attracting consistent visitors - residents and tourists alike.  The suggestions made in the original post are all valid; however, I completely agree with brainstomer about opening the landing so you can see the river from Laura Street as well as from other venue's within the Landing.  The river is such a huge asset and attraction to downtown and the insular layout of the Landing is not very friendly.  The focal point of all venues within the Landing should be the river, but instead most shops and restaurants have their backs to it.  Why would someone drive all the way downtown to sit in a restaurant on the river but be unable to veiw it?   

[copperfiend]

I have to agree that the Landing is very non-family oriented.  I was recently in Baltimore and their Inner Harbor is awesome.  Not only is there a great mix of upscale chain restaurants, but also smaller cafes and retail.  There were many families with kids as well as the traditional tourist groups, cameras in hand.  You can rent paddle boats and their many unique museums are all geared towards family enjoyment.  I also think opening up the landing so one could see the river from Laura Street would be a huge improvement.

I was at the Inner Harbor last year and it certainly has many things that our downtown/southbank should have. Parking garages with proper signage, a Navy ship available for tours, an aquarium, an ESPN Zone...

[rjp2008]

Another impression after visiting it again - a giant sports bar for adults, with nothing for children/teens.  Toss out some of the bars, or put them upstairs some where out of the way. Bottom level should be everything just for kids and youth.

[blizz01]

Churn......Some interesting designs, however. 
Members of the Florida Chapter of the American Planning Association’s annual conference did a makeover on a Jacksonville riverfront landmark â€" The Landing â€" as part of a workshop.

The Jacksonville Landing: A fresh look
A beauty of urban planning is its ability to envision unusual possibilities for the usual world.
Public and private planners from throughout Florida reinforced that notion in Jacksonville recently as part of an annual conference.
Looking for a familiar city feature they could re-invent for fun as part of a workshop, they chose The Jacksonville Landing, the riverfront eating and shopping mainstay that figures prominently in any future downtown plans.
If you’re betting the first impulse was to rub out the Landing and start over, better luck next time.
Instead, planners sized up the Landing â€" a complex owned by developer Toney Sleiman on city-held land â€" and decided that separating it would be the best place to start, as has been recommended before.
That meant carving out the middle of the horseshoe shape to allow pedestrians a straight shot to the river from Laura Street, creating a corridor river view. Right now, planners noted, the Landing faces the river with much of its back to the rest of downtown.
“It’s almost like cracking an egg, splitting it open and draining it onto Laura Street (behind the Landing),” said planner Chris Flagg of Jacksonville’s Flagg Design Studio, LLC., who worked on the Landing project.
And it gets even more interesting.
The “super block”
The planners envisioned creating an entire “super block” for the Landing to fill by eliminating a short stretch of Water Street to the west and removing the ramp to the Main Street Bridge between the Landing and the bridge.
Under that scenario, the Landing would have room to grow from an area bound by Hogan Street to the west, Water Street to the north and Main Street to the east.
The extra space could be filled with Landing extensions that might include housing, parking, office space and shops, and maybe even a high-rise hotel with a parking deck. Those features would be phased in over time.
Other possibilities include turning the current courtyard area of the Landing into green space with marinas added to the waterfront facing the Landing.
And, while they were at it, the planners suggested the current Landing parking lot directly east of the Main Street Bridge could become a convention  center, aquarium or maritime museum.
Of course, the cool thing about all this visioning is that it costs nothing to dream.
Planners in this effort just had to think out of the box; they didn’t have to worry about leases, contracts, landowners, vacating streets or costs.
But the planners didn’t shoot entirely from the hip in reaching their conclusions, which appear to be reasonable.
Management staff from the Landing graciously provided a tour, and the planners did some ground-level sizing up of their own aside from having aerial photographs, base maps and other data.
They generated floor plans and also invited top Landing management to a luncheon in which the planners presented Sleiman with the concept and shared his feedback.
So how did Sleiman react to the planning exercise regarding his business?
“I was really pleased with what they put together. They were right on the money,” Sleiman said.
Vision and reality
Sleiman has talked about cutting through the middle of the Landing to open it up toward Laura Street, but he said the “super block” concept was something new and exciting.
He has also wanted to add more stores along with offices, condominiums, hotel rooms and a marina. But he says he can’t do it without the city’s help.
Sleiman and the Mayor’s Office haven’t been able to agree on a partnership that would provide more of the parking he wants and the financial help that would get his broader plans off the drawing boards.
He said the Mayor’s Office faces plenty of other challenges for now. But he’s optimistic something can be worked out in the future and that the Landing’s best days are ahead.
The planners’ efforts might seem like an exercise in futility. But the concrete starts with a vision.
Opening up the Landing to provide a more direct path to the river from downtown is appealing, and a super block concept anchored by the Landing is intriguing, as well.
Downtown, as downtown advocacy group Downtown Vision noted in a newly released report, is in crisis. Fewer people work downtown now than in previous years. Vacant properties and storefronts abound. Shopping and restaurant options are limited.
Yet, downtown is also like a canvas waiting for more paint. The Landing remains a primary watercolor, and the area’s open spaces â€" particularly along the waterfront â€" hold a great deal of potential for creating a vibrant place to be.
It will take bold thinking â€" even some off-the-charts visioning like the planners did â€" to make downtown fulfill its great potential.

See their proposals. Check out mockups of the vision by simply clicking on a link on the Times-Union’s Web site: bit.ly/LandingPlans
http://jacksonville.com/2010-04-04/story/jaksonville-landing-fresh-look

[tufsu1]

this was a fun project to be involved with...the charette was about 2.5 hours long and occurred while the state conference was here last September.

Metro Jacksonville did a front page article on the ffort a few months ago.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-dec-re-imagining-the-jacksonville-landing

[buckethead]

I disagree that the landing is "dated". Not in the sense implied. The architecture is quit appealing imo, and after a visit to Houston's Minute Maid park (where the Astros play) one might think the architects designed the stadium while sitting in the food court at the Landing.
The place is charming. A new glizty structure would only attract folks until the novelty wears off. 

[mbstout]

from today's Virginian-Pilot about Norfolk's Waterside, which seems to mirror Jax's situation with the Landing.  But why would the city take away the alcohol licenses from this struggling property?
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/08/norfolk-looks-cook-something-new-waterside

[ChriswUfGator]

I noticed his use of the words "joy and sensibility" in discussing his work.

I think this is key to understanding the precise moment at which Jacksonville's urban train left the tracks and promptly plummeted off the side of the trestle down 1000 feet and into a giant fireball. At what point did "joy and sensibility" in urban design turn into "hassles and nonsense"? Because that's why nobody goes downtown.

[CS Foltz]

chris..........the parking issue's were cured............supposedly this is the cure all to fix the Landing up.....right?

[ChriswUfGator]

chris..........the parking issue's were cured............supposedly this is the cure all to fix the Landing up.....right?

The landing is only partly responsible for its own sad state, the wreck of our downtown is also responsible for the Landing's troubles. Hard for a shopping center to do well when there is nobody to go there, no? But with that said, at least having dedicated parking where people don't get ticketed and have to feed meters every 45 minutes will certainly help things.