Breathing Life back into the Jacksonville Landing

[Jerry Moran]

Poignant Letter to the T-U Editor, 04/10/04

By The Times-Union
,

Get a grip, Jacksonville

Visit "therousecompany.com" and you'll learn about a 65-year-old company that operates over 50 regional shopping malls in places like Las Vegas, Chicago and Washington D.C. The Rouse Co., which developed The Jacksonville Landing and since sold it, also operates dozens of major office buildings properties nationwide plus highly acclaimed downtown projects that include Faneuil Hall Marketplace in Boston; South Street Seaport in New York; The Gallery at Market East in Philadelphia; Harborplace and The Gallery at Harborplace in Baltimore; Bayside Marketplace in Miami; Westlake Center in Seattle; and Pioneer Place in Portland. Their properties include tenants like Nordstroms, Brooks Brothers and Neiman Marcus (in Florida).

The Rouse organization is a publicly traded, highly skilled and knowledgeable real estate company that has won national and international recognition for their development, designs and management. Their projects are generally visually vibrant, commercially active contributors to the regions they serve. They are sophisticated people who know how to do a deal.

Rouse did not sell The Jacksonville Landing and take an approximate $20 million write-off unadvisedly. Rouse did not leave good money on the table and walk away from a potentially "super" market opportunity.

Toney Sleiman is an experienced and successful local developer who has demonstrated competence at knocking down pine trees, getting curb cuts and building suburban strip shopping centers of pedestrian design, at best, tenanted with nail salons, mid-price chain stores and carry-out restaurants and drug stores. Their most significant contribution to the nearby subdivisions they serve has, in my opinion, been to make the drive to the beach or office visually unattractive and unpleasantly congested.

Perhaps it's time for a reality check. Too many people are starting to take the Super Bowl hype too seriously. Let's keep things in perspective when it comes to giving tax money for redevelopment at The Landing.

RICHARD MARREN, real estate/marketing, Jacksonville

[tufsu1]

chris..........the parking issue's were cured............supposedly this is the cure all to fix the Landing up.....right?

The landing is only partly responsible for its own sad state, the wreck of our downtown is also responsible for the Landing's troubles. Hard for a shopping center to do well when there is nobody to go there, no? But with that said, at least having dedicated parking where people don't get ticketed and have to feed meters every 45 minutes will certainly help things.

They already had a lot like this....charges $1/hr and $5 on weekend nights....it is rarely full

[CS Foltz]

Well .....JEDC appears to have no problem at all, setting Vescor up with loans totaling $36 Million Dollars plus! Then the City Council writes off the payments, interest only for x number years! Maybe its just my take on the situation but it appears to me, there are rules for one set of people and a completely different set of rules for the voters. We just get to foot the bill, but have no say in squat! Parking is only one part of the Landing equation.....viable energetic stores is another part........maybe something as simple as a water side landing for boats would help! Toney is concerned about the land side of things and is not looking beyond  his limited view! There appears to me to be options that are not that expensive and not even discussed!

[fieldafm]

PLEASE.... WTF does The Jacksonville Landing and freaking Vescor have to do with each other?

I spent nearly the entire weekend at the Landing and I can tell you... I met QUITE a few out of towners, QUITE a few and all of them left with a good impression of the Landing... not so much the rest of downtown.  Matter of fact, I met two very good looking women and their(what I assume would be) their children on Laura Street Saturday around 11am.  They asked me where the Subway was, to which I replied 'its one block up north and one block west of where we're at now in the middle of Heming Plaza... BUT they are closed on the weekends'  To which they responded 'seriously? where can we eat lunch around here?'  I said 'The Landing has a food court and a few casual restaurants, thats your best bet'  I saw them about an hour later with their kids playing in the fountains commenting about how nice this space was and that they wish their city has a space like this.

There were a good number of out of town guests this weekend downtown and all of them commented about the uniqueness of the Landing(it was especially packed Fri and Sat evening/night) and how derelict the remainder of downtown was.

[fieldafm]

chris..........the parking issue's were cured............supposedly this is the cure all to fix the Landing up.....right?

The landing is only partly responsible for its own sad state, the wreck of our downtown is also responsible for the Landing's troubles. Hard for a shopping center to do well when there is nobody to go there, no? But with that said, at least having dedicated parking where people don't get ticketed and have to feed meters every 45 minutes will certainly help things.

They already had a lot like this....charges $1/hr and $5 on weekend nights....it is rarely full

That lot is rarely full on most weeknights.  It is almost always at capacity on weekend nights however.

[uptowngirl]

You are right Fieldfam, my daughter and I went to the Main Library today and wanted to have some lunch afterwards but nothing, and I mean nothing was open but the Landing. My little one had her heart set on BG, but alas also closed, in fact the all the way from the library to LB was empty and closed :-(

[fieldafm]

At least Chamblins is open Saturday... but that's really it food-wise at lunchtime.  La Cena is open in the evenings... but Laura Street still has a LONG way to go unfortunately to become ground zero of DT.

[ChriswUfGator]

PLEASE.... WTF does The Jacksonville Landing and freaking Vescor have to do with each other?

I spent nearly the entire weekend at the Landing and I can tell you... I met QUITE a few out of towners, QUITE a few and all of them left with a good impression of the Landing... not so much the rest of downtown.  Matter of fact, I met two very good looking women and their(what I assume would be) their children on Laura Street Saturday around 11am.  They asked me where the Subway was, to which I replied 'its one block up north and one block west of where we're at now in the middle of Heming Plaza... BUT they are closed on the weekends'  To which they responded 'seriously? where can we eat lunch around here?'  I said 'The Landing has a food court and a few casual restaurants, thats your best bet'  I saw them about an hour later with their kids playing in the fountains commenting about how nice this space was and that they wish their city has a space like this.

There were a good number of out of town guests this weekend downtown and all of them commented about the uniqueness of the Landing(it was especially packed Fri and Sat evening/night) and how derelict the remainder of downtown was.

Should've sent them to Winn-Dixie instead, apparently that counts as a restaurant downtown...   

[ChriswUfGator]

chris..........the parking issue's were cured............supposedly this is the cure all to fix the Landing up.....right?

The landing is only partly responsible for its own sad state, the wreck of our downtown is also responsible for the Landing's troubles. Hard for a shopping center to do well when there is nobody to go there, no? But with that said, at least having dedicated parking where people don't get ticketed and have to feed meters every 45 minutes will certainly help things.

They already had a lot like this....charges $1/hr and $5 on weekend nights....it is rarely full

Well what I meant by help things is that now the Landing can actually get tenants, not that anybody is going to be any happier paying to park than they were before. Free parking is required for DT moving forward, to stop the bleeding.

[samiam]

I posted this in another thread

One thing that would improve Jacksonville's image would be to make the landing more assesable to small boats (You would think with a name like that they would have already done this) making it a premiere waterfront destination is a no brainer. Take the boat out and have lunch at the landing. All they would have to do is place floating docks up to the obstructions just off the seawall.

I know they have a few moorings but just not enough to make it a true destination and if you look at there web sight there is nothing about moorings. I not sure are there any electrical shore ties, fresh water and pumpstations. I know there is no fuel. I use to tie up there in the mid 90s in a Coast Guard 82 ft Patrol boat and it was a pain in the @ss 

[fieldafm]

I posted this in another thread

One thing that would improve Jacksonville's image would be to make the landing more assesable to small boats (You would think with a name like that they would have already done this) making it a premiere waterfront destination is a no brainer. Take the boat out and have lunch at the landing. All they would have to do is place floating docks up to the obstructions just off the seawall.

Samian
With all due respect, have you been to the Landing??  It is VERY accessible by small boats.  On special event weekends, you are correct... but on any normal weekend, the floating docks always have spaces.  I went to the Landing for lunch by boat two Saturdays ago matter of fact, and was met up there by three other boats.

[ChriswUfGator]

I posted this in another thread

One thing that would improve Jacksonville's image would be to make the landing more assesable to small boats (You would think with a name like that they would have already done this) making it a premiere waterfront destination is a no brainer. Take the boat out and have lunch at the landing. All they would have to do is place floating docks up to the obstructions just off the seawall.

Samian
With all due respect, have you been to the Landing??  It is VERY accessible by small boats.  On special event weekends, you are correct... but on any normal weekend, the floating docks always have spaces.  I went to the Landing for lunch by boat two Saturdays ago matter of fact, and was met up there by three other boats.

It would sure be nice if they put in some shore power hookups there.

[Overstreet]

I posted this in another thread

One thing that would improve Jacksonville's image would be to make the landing more assesable to small boats (You would think with a name like that they would have already done this) making it a premiere waterfront destination is a no brainer. Take the boat out and have lunch at the landing. All they would have to do is place floating docks up to the obstructions just off the seawall.

I know they have a few moorings but just not enough to make it a true destination and if you look at there web sight there is nothing about moorings. I not sure are there any electrical shore ties, fresh water and pump stations. I know there is no fuel.     ...................................................................................................I use to tie up there in the mid 90s in a Coast Guard 82 ft Patrol boat and it was a pain in the @ss 

Given the location in the current long term tie up might not be a good idea. Electrical shore ties, freshwater, and pump stations are fine but all marina things not restruant parking lot things. As stated in other posts there are floating docks there. They have been added to since the orignial dock was installed. It is accessable for small boats.


Captian.....if tieing up hurts you there you're not doing it right.

[ricker]

IF removing a center slice of the current horseshoe in order to achieve a water view down Laura Street from from Hemming at Monroe, also means relocating the escalators.. . it seems far flung.

I remember Mr.Sleiman's "It's about time" presentation when he busted out the ambitious scale model of the clock tower hotel and surrounds.

I still sorta want to see Balanky's sky cart contraption a reality oneday - even if it does fall into the river st.john

[thelakelander]

The escalators would have remained in place. The section that would have been demolished is where the B Dalton bookstore used to be.