Skyway expansion to Sport's Complex (arena, Baseball Grounds, & Everbank Field

[stjr]

Sure, there will be costs associated with an expansion.  But that's much better than Option 1 (stagnant ridership and little chance of increased revenue) and Option 2 (re-paying the federal government millions of dollars in grant money as a penalty for dismantling the Skyway).  

Aaaahh....Jacksoninjax, therein is the crux of the issue.  Your statement, like other advocates of expansion, remains, presently, as pure speculation unless you have access to JTA's data, studies, projections, financials, etc. as well as to Federal agreements and insight into the politics of their stance on eventual abandonment and enforcement of any penalties.  No one on MJ really has much more to go on (based on their postings) than a few numbers on operating expenses from two years ago and the numbers cited in T-U articles regarding the original investment, etc.  Even if we had all the projected data, it must be viewed with a skeptical eye given the JTA's prior history of 90% shortfalls on such projections.  No doubt any mode of transit will find some appreciative riders for any conveyance or route, but can such traffic justify the costs to deliver it?  And, if their are other alternatives, such as streetcars, could these be more effective and efficient solutions vs. pouring more $$$ into the Skyway to do the same thing?

I suspect that if JTA could make the numbers work they would be pushing for expansion already.  It sure would be in their best interest to do so if it were true.  They cover over their current daily boondoggle and they get to run a bigger system which means more money and jobs in their organization.  Their failure to do so as the "experts" on the Skyway's economics makes me, for one, think they see it more my way than yours and are avoiding compounding the errors of their past ways.  For political reasons, I believe they are pressured to not admit so publicly.  Nor, will they publicly put the abandonment option on the table.  Which is wrong, because, until a full blown and aired analysis is made, no one knows for sure the best option.  I am merely advocating that the abandonment option remain on the table until such time as it is reasonably proven a better option exist and am rejecting a knee jerk reaction that abandonment can't possibly be the best option.  I would accept keeping the option open for expansion despite my common sense feelings to the contrary provided that it is not knee jerk to automatically assume that option is feasible.  Let JTA make their case and we can go from there.

[jacksoninjax]

[/quote]See what I mean?? Why you gotta be so pro automobile man? I never said get ride of all the lots. People should drive to the game, BUT people should also have the rail option. How is it an inconvenience?? Jags business is to sell the NFL experience.....SOME think its their job to sell wins. Suns provide the professional baseball experience. Options, options, options.....Some people take their boats to Jag games, some use Shuttle, some use their automobile like you...The Skyway is an option. The Best Option off keeping the consumer spending cash downtown. Especially once you remove the chore off driving around. I can assure you Sports Complex has ENOUGH parking spaces.

Coolyfett, you hit the nail on the head with your comment that the Skyway is an option.  Currently, after a game or concert, people are herded to their cars, sit in bumper to bumper traffic and then are essentially directed by the police to exit downtown as fast as they can.   The Skyway will transport visitors (consumers) through the heart of downtown rather than around it (which is what the current shuttle buses do).  This will encourage people to stop and explore the urban core (and spend money) prior to getting in their cars for the mad dash home.  Jacksoninjax

[triclops i]

I noticed in pics of the Detroit and Koreon system and some others the cars where advertisements for the local news, Pepsi, and other things...how about selling ads on the skyway cars to boost revenue for an extension to the stadium area? It would also give the cars a facelift. I wouldnt be for it.

[thelakelander]

I'd plaster those things with ads in a heartbeat.  You can't complain about it being a money loser and then turn around and refuse to do things that will generate more revenue.

[CS Foltz]

stjr........makes one very very valid point! That is without financials for the past two years regarding the $kyway, everyone is guessing or trying to come to a conclusion without enough information to work with! We know the turnstiles are not working...........so how would the actual ridership be judged? Current number discussed is  around 2K per day but how do we know this to be truthfull? We have an idea that it is around $7 Million a year to operate, if those numbers are from the JTA vault of incompetance, I would question them. At this point in time, with all of the discussion that has taken place........that is about all that we know and not really sure any of that information is accurate! It would seem to me, IMHO, we need JTA to come clean with some real time information so we can chose which way to go.......expand or demolish!

[thelakelander]

Demolish is not a realistic option. The real choices are do nothing, better utilize what exists or expand.

[JeffreyS]

Sadly Lake undermine seems to be one of the options.

[triclops i]

I'd plaster those things with ads in a heartbeat.  You can't complain about it being a money loser and then turn around and refuse to do things that will generate more revenue.

Exactly what I was thinking....no one uses it because its not usefu. Its not useful because we are not generateing income to expand it. I think finding alternative ways to fund expansion (advertisements, partys, what else?) could be the awnser.

And Lake is compltetely right- demelition is not a realalistic option. It would make us worse off then when we started and also make us the laughingstock of the modern world.

[Ocklawaha]

Exactly what I was thinking....no one uses it because its not useful. Its not useful because we are not generating income to expand it. I think finding alternative ways to fund expansion (advertisements, partys, what else?) could be the answer.

And Lake is completely right- demolition is not a realistic option. It would make us worse off then when we started and also make us the laughingstock of the modern world.

Actually people DO USE IT, and it is the heaviest traveled transit route PER MILE in North Florida, and perhaps the busiest this side of West Palm Beach.  Using the old passengers per mile rule of measure, the Skyway is well over the 1,000 PPM level even in the slower months of summer. The Skyway ridership figure dwarfs those of the more "flexible" bus system in a route by route comparison of PPM. You get what you pay for.


OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

I just happened to be at City Hall tonight, zoning issue, went outside at about 1945 (sorry....0745 PM) and there just happened to be a $kyway car taking off from the station............two people were visible! How in hell do we come up with 2K riders per day? Unless people were laying on the floor.......two persons visible from street level!

[Scarlettjax]

Well, it would make an awesome inmate mover between the jail and the new courthouse when it opens!  At least, it would have an established and predictable ridership between Jaguar games. 

[Charles Hunter]

I just happened to be at City Hall tonight, zoning issue, went outside at about 1945 (sorry....0745 PM) and there just happened to be a $kyway car taking off from the station............two people were visible! How in hell do we come up with 2K riders per day? Unless people were laying on the floor.......two persons visible from street level!

Just the other day, well around 2am, I was on JTB and only saw one other car.  Those people who say JTB has congestion problems must be lying crooks who want to steal our money.


(note - that was sarcasm)

[Coolyfett]

I'd plaster those things with ads in a heartbeat.  You can't complain about it being a money loser and then turn around and refuse to do things that will generate more revenue.

Some of your ideas I have seen in real life and they work. So I have yet to see and wonder how are if they could work.

The Skyway train will not be shut down...people pushing for thats is comical....but if local media starts pushing that agendy then it may be trouble. I rode the Skyway a lot. It irritated me I couldnt take it home. The thing just aint done. Simple as that. Unfinished business. When they finish it and if it sux after that, then ill hate it like the minority duo here, but so far it cant be judged until its complete to Riverside, Sports Complex & Springfield. Finish it then count the numbers.

[Coolyfett]

Whats the estimate cost of expanding the skyway out to the stadium/arena complex?  Who will be riding it?  The only way you'll get jaguar fans on it is if you do away with the bus service, and really its only 8 weekends a year.  What the max people it could transport in an hour and a half?    Lets face it after a couple hours of tailgating, then the game, the goal of most people is to get home.  Baseball games?  I doubt it, there is more than enough surface parking for those and most of the events in the arena.  Now the gator bowl and the fl-ga game I could see that working well.  But all that depends on the cost estimate.  I don't see expanding to the stadiums as being a panacea or even significantly increasing the ridership when taking the extra cost into account.

You're right, expanding the Skyway to the sports complex won't be a "panacea."  However, it will be a step in the right direction.  Whether we like it or not, the Skyway exists and, as I see it, the city (JTA) has three options.

1. Don't expand it and accept the fact that it will always lose money and will forever remain downtown's white elephant.
2. Tear it down and pretend it was all a bad dream. 
3. Bite the bullet and expand it to the sports complex in order to generate higher and consistent ridership and, in turn, more revenue. 

Sure, there will be costs associated with an expansion.  But that's much better than Option 1 (stagnant ridership and little chance of increased revenue) and Option 2 (re-paying the federal government millions of dollars in grant money as a penalty for dismantling the Skyway). 

Also, the use wouldn’t be limited to home football games.  What about events at Metro Park, concerts at the Arena, Jax Sun’s baseball games, Florida-Georgia game, and the Jax Fair?  As I've mentioned, there is a huge disconnect between the sports complex and the rest of downtown (Northbank, Landing and Southbank).  How great would it be if people actually used the outlining parking areas (including the Kings Avenue garage) and took the Skyway to the sports complex, with the option of stopping along the way at restaurants and nightclubs (and hopefully one day the Shipyards complex) that will surely begin the sprout up along the Bay Street and Forsyth Street corridors.     

Thats basically what everyone has been saying. +1

I forgot about the Fair

[tufsu1]

Nice Charles!