Five Points News stand closing(turning into BBQ?)

[TheProfessor]

I wish a good coffee/book shop would open up where fuel was.

[Fallen Buckeye]

Seriously? That's a couple blocks difference. Basically, your definition of the 5 Points district seems to be based only on what would support your stance. I'm basing my definition on the whole commercial area surrounding that intersection because the average person would include that area as a part of the district. In fact, the distances involved here are probably less than walking your average shopping mall end to end. And you wouldn't call a whole shopping mall on the verge of dying because there a few odd vacant storefronts. Point being, the district as a whole is very relevant and healthy considering the overall business climate.

The fact that 5 Points has a supermarket, my favorite local pizza joint, my landlord's offices, and the Cummer and RAM nearby keeps me coming to 5 Points. As long they maintain a mix of uses like that I think you have to argue that it's still a vibrant area. With the economy as it is, only the best business models can make it period. I'm pretty sure the vacancy rate in 5 Points fares very well in comparison to Jax overall.

The publix shopping center isn't what we're referring to when we say "5 Points". I think most people are referring to the original core of 5 Points, e.g. the original commercial district around Park & Lomax. Much/most of it is vacant. Of course the Publix is doing well, it's Publix. That has little to do with the rest of 5 Points.

[ChriswUfGator]

I don't think it's right to say that much or most of 5 Points is vacant.  Currently there are four vacancies on Park Street - the old Latitudes space, the old Peterson Events space, Fuel, and maybe Fu Hao (but I hear that may re-open).  I that's comparable to Avondale or San Marco (or anywhere on the Southside for that matter).

For 5 Points to be successful, I think people need to think of it as including everything from the Publix to RAM, including Lomax and the other end of Margaret Street.  If you take that definition, there's as many stores as a mall, and people from across town begin to think of the area in a new way.  This is where smart urban planning and urban design can play a huge role - in tying the area together with signage, streetscaping, etc.

Fu Hao is closed, there are signs in the windows selling the furniture and restaurant equipment. So Fu Hao, Fuel, Deco Bistro, Latitudes, Subway, the News Stand, and probably some stuff I can't think of at the moment, have shut down and all those spaces remain vacant. If the rents were reasonable, they wouldn't be having so many unfilled vacancies.

There are really two 5 Points, one is comprised of the chains that are impervious to the local market, like Starbucks, Publix, SunTrust Bank, Al's, etc. I don't think lumping that in with the small businesses that are all struggling and closing in the area is doing something of a disservice when discussing the area as a whole.

The large chains are doing fine, nobody is worried about that. It's the local businesses in 5 Points that haven't been making it. This is kind of a canary in the coal mine, if you will.

[ChriswUfGator]

Seriously? That's a couple blocks difference. Basically, your definition of the 5 Points district seems to be based only on what would support your stance. I'm basing my definition on the whole commercial area surrounding that intersection because the average person would include that area as a part of the district. In fact, the distances involved here are probably less than walking your average shopping mall end to end. And you wouldn't call a whole shopping mall on the verge of dying because there a few odd vacant storefronts. Point being, the district as a whole is very relevant and healthy considering the overall business climate.

The fact that 5 Points has a supermarket, my favorite local pizza joint, my landlord's offices, and the Cummer and RAM nearby keeps me coming to 5 Points. As long they maintain a mix of uses like that I think you have to argue that it's still a vibrant area. With the economy as it is, only the best business models can make it period. I'm pretty sure the vacancy rate in 5 Points fares very well in comparison to Jax overall.

The publix shopping center isn't what we're referring to when we say "5 Points". I think most people are referring to the original core of 5 Points, e.g. the original commercial district around Park & Lomax. Much/most of it is vacant. Of course the Publix is doing well, it's Publix. That has little to do with the rest of 5 Points.

You're not understanding the mechanics of small vs. large and chain vs. independent businesses.

People will drive 10 miles to go to Publix, Starbucks, SunTrust, etc., so none of that has any bearing at all on the health of the shopping district, especially when small businesses aren't making it there. Most of the people who go to Publix or SunTrust go do their business and get back in the car and go home, these aren't contributors to a cohesive shopping district.

Using your own examples, why do think you don't see supermarkets inside malls?

[Fallen Buckeye]

I have in fact seen a grocery store inside an enclosed mall before, and there are several shopping centers with grocery stores as anchors although you are right many of these tend to be auto-oriented. But that's beside the point. There is often a mix of large chains, mom and pop stores, and anchor stores in many shopping areas. Historically, when mom and pop business was apparently booming downtown there were large corporate anchors like Sears and so on there, too. The anchors draw the most people in and surrounding small businesses prosper as a result of the increased traffic. It was not just a vaccuum where only small business exists.

My point is that you have to consider the district as a whole and if you do you'll see a diversity of uses that includes both large and small businesses which gives the district stability. That way when one strip (such as on Park St. across from the theater) is being mismanaged the entire district does not necessarily decline. 

[deathstar]

It's not the same Five Points I grew up with, but I wouldn't say it's flatlining. I always forget to look, but does anyone know what's going in where the old deli was? It's the first store by the parking lot across the street from the church.

[peestandingup]

I've lived here 4 years & personally never saw the allure of 5 Points (the ACTUALLY 5 Points, not the entire area). There's hardly anything of substance that comes in there. I mean really, how many times are you gonna frequent the antique store & the place to buy cigars?? Its trying to be way too niche & hip for its own good. You can be those things, but you also gotta have a sustainable product & environment that people will want to frequent.

And it just seems like a lot of the food businesses that come in do a really half-assed job. Weird inconsistent hours, wet behind the ear owners, etc. Most of those places that have come & gone, food, coffee shops, etc have just reeked of mediocrity & poor business planning.

[jaxlore]

I think there is plenty of "sustainable product" in 5 points. Anomaly/Underbelly, Lomax Lodge, Midnight Sun, The Coffee Shop, Bead Here and now, Edge City, 5 Points Theater...the list goes on, if you are looking for upscale dinning sorry that has never been the attraction and i hope it will never be, go to  Avondale, if thats your thing, there's plenty of it. I do wish there where was a funky organic hole in the wall restaurant, but the future of 5 points is still holding on and I will it always be one of my favorite place in jax!

[floridaforester]

The fine dining will be coming soon with the Black Sheep group venture next to mossfire.   in response to the idea that there is not a "sustainable product", tell me anywhere that there hasn't been some commercial turnover.  Yes, even the generic 'st johns town center' has had some failures and most consumers in the US love that kind of cookie cutter chain crap.

5 Points has just about anything you could need or want within a 1/2 mile radius (minus your big box store garbage, thank goodness).  Name anywhere else in the city that can claim that.

[heights unknown]

Used to always go and get my music magazines from this newsstand (billboard, etc.) back in the 70's and 80's.  Will miss this 5 Point icon.

"HU"

[billy]

Me too.
New Musical Express, Cream, Melody Maker.

[danno]

Hopefuly the BBQ is good..

[Ocklawaha]

Used to always go and get my music magazines from this newsstand (billboard, etc.) back in the 70's and 80's.  Will miss this 5 Point icon.

"HU"

Yeah, First Milligan's Restaurant then Peterson's 5 and 10 and now this? Oh the humanity!


OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

Printed reading material is so 20th century.  It was only a matter of time before that newsstand died.

I take it your an IPad owner?

[urbanlibertarian]

No, but I'm shopping for a Linux tablet or netbook.  Who can afford Apple products?