Black Sheep Restaurant Group Planning New Restaurant for 5 Points

[Dapperdan]

Allan,
What are the plans for the rooftop? Will it be part of the restaurant or its own separate bar space? Also, how will that affect possible residential units directly below it? I like the idea of the rooftop bar/club. I think it will add to the area in a  big way.

[simms3]

It has my stamp of approval.  IMHO one oak tree out of the thousands in the neighborhood is worth losing for this development.  As for final design: looks like they have spent considerable time and money already on the model, the site plan, and the video.  Therefore this is probably very similar to what will end up on the site.

Financing for a restaurant is pretty difficult.  Mr. Orsay will likely have to work out pre-lease of about 5,000 SF at least to get financing.  I bet a small law firm or doctor's office could locate there.

[simms3]

Well a live oak is worth something.  A water oak really isn't.  If you guys have ever seen pictures of the early development of every neighborhood in town: they were all clear cut.  This development is worth losing one or two water oaks, imho.

[rjp2008]

Build right around the tree and have it inside the restaurant lol.

[dlupercio]

Great Design! Utilizes the space in an excellent manor. Helps the urban wants and needs. De Stijl (esque)  meets a bit of post modern with a bit of today. Can't wait to see the finish product. will look amazing i bet!

[dlupercio]

http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2010/08/10/black-sheep-restaurant-group-planning-new-restaurant-for-5-points-next-to-mossfire/

I am a huge fan of modern architecture but this proposed design for the triangular site next to Mossfire Grill in 5 Points is simple hideous in the extreme.  It is the worst kind of bad modern architecture; it looks like a Southside office complex. I sincerely hope RAP opposes this design with all of it power.

no no no no no.

[RiversideLoki]

You know what they say: "Opinions are like assholes."

I personally like the design. I've hung around enough architects' offices in this city to see some pretty awesome modern designs that just go to the wayside because some fuddy-duddy hates modern architecture. Remember, the same people that say "I love modern architecture but..." are usually the same people in this city that say "I have black friends but..."... OK so that's a little extreme.

We need to take the sticks out of our rears in terms of architecture here. Most of Jacksonville's "new" architecture is so boring and bland because no one wants to shake up the scene and rock the boat. We love our McOfficeCondos, McStripMalls and McMansions. They're cheap to design and cheap to build. Hell, there are a few firms in Jax that JUST Specialize in rubberstamp plans. That's how JAX rolls. Take the new courthouse (*puke*) for example.

Of course, proponents of that type of architecture will often say "But it matches the classical style of Klutho or whoever." to them I say "No it doesn't. Your new 80 million dollar building looks like a scaled up family care medical office. Probably used the same rubber stamp plans."

It's nice to see some of the younger talent shine. I hope this thing gets built.

[simms3]

Agreed^^^

There are some cool houses in the metro, but as far as commercial space, we have the most boring designs for all of our buildings.  It's no wonder that AD or Florida Design never even bother with anything in Jacksonville and no modern interior design, kitchen, furniture, or other stores open up locations here.

We have some great architects in this city, but most never bother with anything contemporary.

[simms3]

It's already a tiny footprint.  How could the building be profitable/able to stand if it takes away half of the space?

[mrmakersmark]

Roof top bar will be easy...everyone just gets a GIANT straw and drink out of that HUGE beer bottle shown in the second picture!!

[trigger]

"Remember, the same people that say "I love modern architecture but..." are usually the same people..."

I believe the City of Jacksonville's track record on modern architecture is very well established as being somewhere between bad and crap. It's pretty clear that there are very few people in this city who really know what good modern architecture is and their very limited experience is the problem not the criticisms of this design (using that term very loosely). I've seen good architects crap better designs in their sleep than this (OK, not a very good mixed metaphor there but you get the point).

[RiversideLoki]

"Remember, the same people that say "I love modern architecture but..." are usually the same people..."

I believe the City of Jacksonville's track record on modern architecture is very well established as being somewhere between bad and crap. It's pretty clear that there are very few people in this city who really know what good modern architecture is and their very limited experience is the problem not the criticisms of this design (using that term very loosely). I've seen good architects crap better designs in their sleep than this (OK, not a very good mixed metaphor there but you get the point).

Thanks Trigger, good reply!

I agree.. I've "seen" lots of what some would term "better designs". The problem is, you don't see them *built* that often. You see the same garbage over and over. Stucco and ugly columns and beige and junk. Always drab, never edgy, never pushing the limits.

I'm no professional architecture critic, I'm definitely no architect. I'm a computer guy that has worked with lots of architects. I just see what tickles my fancy and say "Holy crap, those renderings are amazing! I'd love to see that built!" But it never happens.

[trigger]

Modern in this town is code for cheap. There are very few people in this town with the cojones to design and build a really outstanding piece of modern architecture.

[RiversideLoki]

What do you think about the UNF student union? Would you consider that modern?

[trigger]

UNF Student Union? I'm drawing a blank, which really tells the story. I'm sure I've seen it and it made zero impression.