Downtown Bus Rapid Transit Project Moving Forward

[thelakelander]

[Bike Jax]

There is a major odor rising up from this entire JTA BRT system plan. This plan has been shown, proven, taken out to dinner and taken home drunk. We all know along with JTA that BRT is a joke and does nothing enhance either ridership or Transit Oriented Development for the areas it will be run through. JTA has been shown countless times how rail is so much more cost effective both in terms of construction costs and positive growth to the adjoining areas. Yet, they continue to shove this project down the throat of Jacksonville. Why is that?

I think there needs to a complete and total personal financial audit of every JTA board member, employee, Local and State official who has had any say whatsoever in this project. The only reason projects this bad get pushed thru is because someone is getting their pockets lined.

[vicupstate]

We all know that Jax is 20 years behind it's peer cities.  If Little Rock started it's streetcar system in 2001, then Jax still has nearly 11 years to go before falling any FURTHER behind.  So get off JTA's back.

[TheProfessor]

Perhaps the conspiracy is that Gate provides all the gas for the buses?   

[simms3]

While I am no fan of BRT and I think everyone here makes valid points, some comments seem better off left unsaid.  Namely comments attacking Tufsu (which I seem to notice a lot) and comments clearly displaying chips on someone's shoulder against certain people that have masters or PhDs.  Sometimes it gets overwhelming when we all display the same points and the same point of view and a little bit of opposition (which Tufsu's comments were not endorsing the plan in any way) is a breath of fresh air.  I usually find myself in the same stance as everyone here, but when we are all on the same page and literally attacking people that come up with these plans, it wears pretty quickly.  Lastly about the masters and PhDs, who says that the JTA board is made up of people with them?  And what's wrong with working to get either one?  I plan on getting my MBA at some point, does that make me a bad person?  Personally attacking the rich or the "uber-educated", easy as it is sometimes, accomplishes nothing and probably dissuades more people than it persuades.

OK, on to the plan.  I am no fan of BRT and think we should hold out for LRT or streetcar, but I think the reasoning behind all of this has to do with people who are only in positions of leadership at JTA for short periods and want some sort of legacy or at least something to do, and only dirt being turned provides fulfills that goal for many people.  Planning and trying to win federal money for a more robust and properly implemented system will take a few years at least, and that means nothing happens under the current leadership's watch.  That is probably a big roadblock for us that is not discussed very often, but is also probably a reason why they keep pushing for these silly projects that waste money.

I think that Stephen is right in that transit needs to become a separate agency with ties to the city planning department (which is currently under drastically better leadership with Killingsworth at the helm).

Also, Lake, thanks for posting a map of the BRT North route.  I like the route and think it does a pretty good job of hitting dense residential areas and the few "commercial" areas on the northside, but eventually another branch will have to head towards RiverCity Marketplace and that area to really maximize use (especially with Shands opening up a branch hospital there).  More stops may also be necessary closer in to the core, but I think JTA at least thought out the route well, even though it doesn't follow the S curve.

[thelakelander]

but eventually another branch will have to head towards RiverCity Marketplace and that area to really maximize use (especially with Shands opening up a branch hospital there).

Commuter rail will serve this area instead of BRT.

[simms3]

^^^Well I meant whatever serves that area, be it BRT, commuter/DMU, or LRT (the latter two preferred).  Is commuter planned for that area for sure?

[urbaknight]

What we need to ask potential mayoral candidates, as well as council members running, "If elected, would you be willing to completely clean out JTA management and throw out all of their future plans and finally put to rest that god awful BRT plan once and for all never to even be spoken of ever ever again?!" That issue alone, if solved, will bring all other urban problems in place to be solved. Like a puzzle, we have to start at the right piece. And let's keep the pressure on JTA to stop their madness!

[CS Foltz]

Well, the general concensus appears to me, IMHO, WTF? Here we go again, BRT does nothing regarding urban infill and yet rail does...................so why does JTA keep pushing this down our throats? $12 Million Dollars would go along way to revitalizing downtown and the surrounding area's yet here we go again with more concrete and stripping and lighting and some fancy new "Historical" Bus stops..........I mean WTH! I am really getting feed up with JTA and their narrow minded approach to mass transit! Advertising will not help if there is no one to read the advertising and we just will be forced to subsidize JTA even further then we allready do. Instead of a narrow outlook, they should be looking down range 50 years and then some but nooooooooo, they can not see past their narrow concrete noses! If they had to pay for this out of their own pockets, they might change there outlook, but using taxpayer funds, they really don't care about much of anything other than protecting their fiefdom and their turf! Past time for the clown college to be changed! urbaknight...........you have a point!

[AaroniusLives]

Namely comments attacking Tufsu (which I seem to notice a lot) and comments clearly displaying chips on someone's shoulder against certain people that have masters or PhDs.

Totally agreed. Tufsu is certainly entitled to express his or her opinions without having such a rabid and "Fox News" level of unmeasured response. Keep on keepin' on, Tufsu.

I'm not even going to approach the grapes souring on the vine regarding those who expand their education.

This BRT plan isn't a fixed system.  Its a network of roads that the majority of city buses will use at some point along their route to where ever they are going.

And this, frankly, is why it is doomed to fail miserably. Unless you get dedicated lanes, or are in an environment toxic to driving (like DC,) you don't get ridership.

To me, this project reeks of politicians wanting to say they're "doing something," when, in fact, they're really doing nothing. A more sinister view would be that since the $12 million is free from the feds, and that it duplicates an existing, underused route, once could easily use the obviously low ridership results to "prove" that both BRT and mass transit in general don't work in Jacksonville.

Honestly, Jacksonville's transit nonsense makes all the crap regarding DC Streetcars look awesome in comparison.

It's also hysterical that the stops are so close to one another. Like people can't walk two blocks. Certainly removes the "R" from "BRT."

[CS Foltz]

Yeah! But it's Bus Rapid Transit dude! Like the HSR, down Orlando way, with stops also that slow things up, 30 minutes over driving! I see no advantage but money down the tubes for a half butted system! Well its supposed to be going Miami way in the future.............no money allocated for that end yet, so we end up with something that starts nowhere and goes nowhere! Yup............outstanding use of our tax dollars!

[urbaknight]

Part of your day. Part of your community. Part of your life. Thanks fro rubbing it in for those like me who can't see well enough to drive. I have to rely on this broken system, and I don't appreciate them telling me that on every busride over the loud speaker! I don't want to look back on my life 80 years from now and remember these a$$ holes that are always late, some but not as many as before, are very nasty to their riders, and if you're not in the street to stop them, they'll simply pass you by! Please, some one email me about meeting up to take this issue on. I promise to be civil, diplomatic and will rant constructively. My email is as fallows, (albiknight@gmail.com) Thank you all. 

[Todd_Parker]

How does a bus get a passing mark in an environmental impact study? Light rail/fixed trolley would be more friendly in that aspect, no?

[dlupercio]

Toddparker...thank you!!!! studies done on rails are always considerable clear on how much beneficial they are for the environment. As well as bringing more commercial business and blah blah...things we already know.Yet things these idiotic people seem to refuse to pay attention.

Petitions? protests?? what do we have to do to get our voice heard in the crappy city? i came from Atlanta and miss the rail...and miss having a voice. Rail is something people shouldn't give up on. And something this city will get before i leave. I really want to go to the meeting tomorrow to see what idiots are in charge for this mistake they are about to put the citizens of jacksonville through.

[TheProfessor]

San Francisco and Seattle rely heavily on bus transit within the city, but they do have a rail component.