To Be Demolished: The Formal Track to demolition

[sheclown]

What is the reason for all this demolition?
Is there a fear they'll be used for criminal activities? Gangs? Drugs?
Is there a fear homeless will take up residence, become injured, and then sue the city?
Having only moved to Jacksonville within the past year I really am quite amazed how they get the bulldozers out when there's little to nothing to replace it.

Big Guy,
Nicole and I will be posting the Historic Planning Commission meeting minutes soon for some of these properties.  You will see that quite often homes are demo'd because vagrants or criminal activity has occurred in or around the property.

More alarming, very few of these houses placed on the formal track have even had interior inspections-- by ANYONE, let alone a structural engineer.  And when exterior inspections have been done, they were by code enforcement officers, not anyone specifically trained or educated in historic preservation

[strider]

Just a quick bit of information:

The house at 27 - 29  West 7th Street that was taken in 2008 had property taxes current. That house’s tax value was set at $ 103,936.00.  (three or four year old structural improvements, metal roof, sills, etc.)   The taxes due were $1,714.47.  Demolition cost the city the majority of the demolition lien, which is for $8,452.24.  I think we can assume about $ 6,000.00 of that was actually spent and the balance were the admin add-ons.  The lot is currently at a value of $ 17,860.00 and the taxes due are $ 309.07.  That means code enforcement spent thousands of our tax dollars to reduce the tax base by about $ 85,000.00 and the taxes collected by  $ 1,400.00. 

It just seems to make better sense financially to spent those thousands to preserve and protect houses like this and therefore eventually get a much larger return on the investment rather that the loss code enforcement has earned all of us tax payers.

[avs]

Why are there not more homes in Riverside/Avondale placed on "formal track?"  Because they raise holy hell over there!  We need to get loud and our representatives (political and neighborhood organizations) need to start standing up for the foundation of our district: our historic homes! 

[acme54321]

What is the sense of a designated historic district when the city is just going to come in and level buildings?  Absolutely ridiculous.

I think waht the residents are doing over there is great.  A little TLC to help the curb appeal of some of these properties will go a long way, but that is a lot of sweat for a property you do not even own.   It seems a lot of these homes could be had for a song but the renovation of a historic home like these is a lot of blood, sweat, tears and $$$.

[jbroadglide]

Strider your facts are basically correct but, as Paul Harvey liked to say "heres the rest of the story".

The house was first inspected on Nov 20 2003 and was found at that time to have serious structural defects INSIDE and out, constituting a fire and windstorm hazard and was unfit for human habitation.
The case proceeded through normal channels including sending the property owners numerous notices of the violations. When no response was heard it went to the Special Magistrate for at least 4 hearings. Only one hearing did the owners ever show. They were given opportunity after opportunity to correct the issues. During that time they sold the house to another person, so the entire process started all over again. Notices were sent to the new owners advising of the violations. More Special Magistrate hearings were held and again the owners failed to appear.

It was finally ordered demo'ed, after almost 5 years of the owners making no effort to bring the building up to code. Meanwhile its condition was getting worse and worse. At some point in time the city has to draw the line and say enough.

I have seen pictures of the interior and it was absolutely unlivable. Believe me, the city does not want to demo a house. They would much rather owners fix them up. That adds to the tax base as you pointed out and is a win/win for everyone. But there are some structures that eventually the city has to step in and be the bad guy.

I hope this clears up some of the discussion of this particular structure.

[jbroadglide]

Stephen I guess we will agree to disagree on that and move on. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Stephen I guess we will agree to disagree on that and move on.  

How are you going to "agree to disagree"?

Property Safety's scam of mailing the Notice of Violation and/or Notice of Hearing before the Special Master to the wrong address is something both Stephen and myself personally experienced. There is no arguing it, it happens more often than not.

By the time the owner realizes in reality that the property has been cited or called for hearing, the hearing has usually already passed and the fines are already running. Frankly, I think that's the intended strategy. Unfortunately for them, this does not constitute valid service or notice.

Then when you call the GC's office to discuss the situation, they turn it into a game of "Let's make a Deal" on how much you'll pay to settle. LMAO, I'll pay $0 thank you very much, we'll just get a declaratory judgment invalidating the fines. And when that happens, you are wasting the city attorneys' $80k/yr time, which I consider to be a nice little bonus considering COJ were the ones trying to pull a fast one in the first place. Of course, this contributes to the system's fiscal inefficiency, but what's the property owner supposed to do?

Ask anybody who's owned property in Springfield, this scam with notices is well-known. And you can't say COJ doesn't "know" what your address is, considering that under our consolidated government they're also the same party who records the deed for your house and issues your drivers' license. Trust me, they know where you live.

[jbroadglide]

Property Safety gets its owners name and ADDRESS from the Property Appraiser and the Tax Collecters official records.. If you have a beef take it up with them. If you aren't living at that location any longer than you need to notify PAO and TC and inform them of your new mailing address so they will update their records and then Property Safety can update theirs.

[thelakelander]

This is something MJ should do a photo tour of.  It's one thing to see a list of random addresses but it could really hit home with more people if they could see the structures in their current state.  It would be also interesting to see how this policy compares with those in Savannah, Charleston and St. Augustine.

[jbroadglide]

Okay Stephen, I'm not going to argue the point any longer. You are referring to whats happened in the past. All I can tell you is the facts as they are now. PSD database is tied into PAO database. Whatever the Property Appraiser has as the official mailing address for the property owner, thats where the notices are sent.

Moving on...........

[ChriswUfGator]

Property Safety gets its owners name and ADDRESS from the Property Appraiser and the Tax Collecters official records.. If you have a beef take it up with them. If you aren't living at that location any longer than you need to notify PAO and TC and inform them of your new mailing address so they will update their records and then Property Safety can update theirs.

That's total bullcrap.

I sued COJ over this exact issue very recently. The property records and my DL both clearly indicated my current address, and despite that, COJ did all of the following;

1: Cited me for violations at a property I had already sold before the property was inspected or cited.

2: Mailed the Notice of Violation to the property address, which was never my residence, when the property records and my DL are both updated and showed my actual residential address.

3: Convened a Special Master's Hearing to assess a $350/day fine against me personally, despite having no personal service of process which would be required to support a personal judgment.

4: They mailed the Notice of Hearing to a property I sold way back in 2004, again despite my information always being up to date in the records, and despite the deed selling the property they actually sent the Notice to having been recorded 5 years ago. Needless to say, I never received notice of the violation, never received notice of the hearing, and by the time I had found out about it the fines totalled $140k.

5: When notified of the problem, the GC's office tried to argue the same bullcrap as you are now. In return I faxed copies of all the aforementioned documents, together with my Drivers' License and current address records. They had no explanation, but still refused to drop the fine.

So I sued.

Don't try and tell me this B.S. doesn't happen. It does. You're welcome to come see all the documentation.

[ChriswUfGator]

Okay Stephen, I'm not going to argue the point any longer. You are referring to whats happened in the past. All I can tell you is the facts as they are now. PSD database is tied into PAO database. Whatever the Property Appraiser has as the official mailing address for the property owner, thats where the notices are sent.

Moving on...........

More bullcrap.

[iloveionia]

Strider your facts are basically correct but, as Paul Harvey liked to say "heres the rest of the story".

The house was first inspected on Nov 20 2003 and was found at that time to have serious structural defects INSIDE and out, constituting a fire and windstorm hazard and was unfit for human habitation.
The case proceeded through normal channels including sending the property owners numerous notices of the violations. When no response was heard it went to the Special Magistrate for at least 4 hearings. Only one hearing did the owners ever show. They were given opportunity after opportunity to correct the issues. During that time they sold the house to another person, so the entire process started all over again. Notices were sent to the new owners advising of the violations. More Special Magistrate hearings were held and again the owners failed to appear.

It was finally ordered demo'ed, after almost 5 years of the owners making no effort to bring the building up to code. Meanwhile its condition was getting worse and worse. At some point in time the city has to draw the line and say enough.

I have seen pictures of the interior and it was absolutely unlivable. Believe me, the city does not want to demo a house. They would much rather owners fix them up. That adds to the tax base as you pointed out and is a win/win for everyone. But there are some structures that eventually the city has to step in and be the bad guy.

I hope this clears up some of the discussion of this particular structure.

You are correct.  I've read numerous transcripts, spoken to several Code Compliance Officers and folks in the office.  They are following a code set on the books, plain and simple.  The past, however, brought a different result.  Something went remiss around 2007, frustration maybe, and bam, bam, bam houses went on formal tracks for demolition and it continues like a landslide.  I believe Code Enforcement too wants the houses restored/renovated.  But they are tired of waiting.  It was stated the process moved from 36 months to 6 months right around that time.

But I will not accept this for a Nationally Recognized Historic District.

Board it and secure it rather than spending all the money to take photos, write reports, and do nothing proactive to protect a structure.  A different approach.  Patience is needed.  

[avs]

The city's 6 month policy for their historic districts needs to be changed/amended whatever.  The way the policy is written is not congruent with preservation of their Historic Districts.  I understand this policy for outside of the districts, but the districts need to be excepted. 

In most cities historic districts are great economic centers and the cities make exceptions to preserve and enhance these neighborhoods. 

Springfield can not become an amenity for the city if the city allows its policies to undercut it. 

[iloveionia]

The following is an example of a property on the eminent danger list.
1925 Liberty Street

I post this for 2 reasons:
1.  The letter to the Special Master to "abate violations by demolition"
2.  The validation that an owner has 2 options: "repair or demolish" according to the city.

I am not a structural engineer.  I am not an architect.  I have not been inside this property.  I do not know it's real condition other than looking at it from the outside. 

It very well could be beyond repair due to severe deterioration.  It very well could be boarded and secured to prevent further damage.  I don't know.

Because Springfield is a Nationally Recognized Historic Neighborhood, properties do deserve more than the current 6 months.  Previously it used to be 36 months.  We need to go back to that and in the meantime board, secure, and watch over the property. 







 














Here is a chart that includes a photo of the property: