Can Downtown Survive?

[Fallen Buckeye]

So to summarize. Here are some key issues to address to increase vibrancy in DT.
-Remove barriers that keep people from doing day to day business within DT such as parking issues and one-way streets that are if nothing else perceived barriers by the general public.
-Improve connectivity both within DT and with adjacent neighborhoods.
-Encourage dense, mixed development on a pedestrian scale to make it possible to walk to a majority of destinations once you are downtown instead of spreading revitalization efforts here and there across DT.
-Along those same lines make it easy to be a pedestrian DT with carefully planned installation of bulbouts, center medians, lighting, and mass transit lines.
-Adjusting Zoning Regs to make it easier to develop in town instead of on the fringes of suburbia.
-Improve signage to make DT more user friendly for both motorists and pedestrians.
-Address public perception of high crime rates through public info campaign, increased visibility of police prescence on the ground, improved lighting.

I may be leaving a couple things out, but these seem like realistic goals that could implemented incrementally to improve downtown. Some of these things are probably already taking place hopefully.

[RockStar]

Um, are the one way streets really that confusing to people? Because that's just sad. Country mouse needs to visit city mouse more often...

[JC]

People need to live and work downtown!  Jacksonville should create and fund a limited program for say 1000 people to subsidize their rent based on a sliding scale.  People who are willing to live downtown will use the services and patronize the business in the city limits.  This can be a coalition funded by business groups, charity organizations and city government.  

Lets say this were done for 1000 people and the median income were around 40,000 you are talking $40,000,000 of which a large portion would be spent on downtown business and entertainment.  The more people that live downtown the more people that will want to visit and live because right now its a pretty damn depressing and sometimes scary place to visit!

A brief note on parking.

Yesterday my wife and I got a 25.00 ticket at Jax Beach for parking too close to a stop sign even though there was more than a car length between us and the stop sign (30' is the minimum so make sure you bring your tape measure because the dam curbs aren't painted!)

We wanted to but didn't go to Treaty Oak Park because there is no clear parking!

We had to illegally park at RCBC/Mosh parking to walk across the Main St Bridge, where we discussed Zombieland rules because of our fellow bridge walkers.  

We then ate dinner at Outback because we were worried about getting another ticket, only this time downtown!

[Traveller]

Um, are the one way streets really that confusing to people? Because that's just sad. Country mouse needs to visit city mouse more often...

I was almost hit this morning by a driver heading north on Laura between Forsyth and Adams, so apparently it's still confusing to some people.

[tufsu1]

Um, are the one way streets really that confusing to people? Because that's just sad. Country mouse needs to visit city mouse more often...

+1

[Fallen Buckeye]

Um, are the one way streets really that confusing to people? Because that's just sad. Country mouse needs to visit city mouse more often...

Please tell me why one way streets are so preferable to 2-way streets. That's the really the vital question.

And elitist attitudes like that are a good way to turn people off to positive changes. Especially in a city like Jax where urban, suburban, and rural are all in one boat. You attract more bees with honey my friend.

[Ethylene]

Stephen,

In our personal conversations, I've expressed my feeling that the MetroJacksonville Forum is not an appropriate place to pimp one's business, and that I held considerable disdain for those who do.

That being said, to answer your question, La Cena is always open Tuesday - Saturday from 5 PM until very late, and if you do not want to sit in the main dining room, all of our appetizers and appetizer portions of pasta are available in the bar area at appetizer prices.  We'll also throw in fresh bread, butter, and grissini with any order, including beer or wine at the bar. I think you will find La Cena to be a great value considering what you receive for your money.

That's all I'll say.

Ok, let me pimp it for you! I love La Cena! Homemade bread, pastas and fresh seafood all delicious with wonderful servers, Victoria and Marlene who know me by name. Also, Wilifred (sp?) in the kitchen gets a shout out too. Jerry will even walk you out to your car when you're done. They all treat me like a Queen and I am there more than an other downtown restaurant open in the evening. It helps too that it's within walking distance of my workplace but I usually move my car to be closer and avoiding having to walk too long w/ Jerry, haha, just teasing. Sometimes, he even shows me funny things on his computer! Hands down the best dining establishment downtown for me and that's all I'm saying but it needed saying! 

[tufsu1]

Um, are the one way streets really that confusing to people? Because that's just sad. Country mouse needs to visit city mouse more often...

Please tell me why one way streets are so preferable to 2-way streets. That's the really the vital question.

At one time, the thought was that they moved traffic quicker (which was deemed a good thing)...they are also more efficient in dowtown areas as they allow signal progression (everything turning green in sequence)....finally, the theory was that they were safer for pedestrians (far fewer conflict points).

The newer school of thought is that downtowns should not have fast-moving traffic and that two-way streets are better for businesses...Jax. is in the process of converting some of the streets (Laura, Bay, Independent, etc.) but it isn't as easy as it sounds...conversion requires new mast arm signals and retiming of the system.

Also, some streets Main/Ocean and State/Union should remain one-way due to the high traffic volumes they carry.

[Fallen Buckeye]

At one time, the thought was that they moved traffic quicker (which was deemed a good thing)...they are also more efficient in dowtown areas as they allow signal progression (everything turning green in sequence)....finally, the theory was that they were safer for pedestrians (far fewer conflict points).

The newer school of thought is that downtowns should not have fast-moving traffic and that two-way streets are better for businesses...Jax. is in the process of converting some of the streets (Laura, Bay, Independent, etc.) but it isn't as easy as it sounds...conversion requires new mast arm signals and retiming of the system.

Also, some streets Main/Ocean and State/Union should remain one-way due to the high traffic volumes they carry.

Basically, it was a failed experiment. Turns out that faster traffic isn't good for pedestrians. The harder to navigate streets are not so great for business. I don't think it was a malicious plan to destroy DT, but we need to begin fixing our mistakes and understandably it will take some time. I think that as streets are resurfaced they should be reconverted to save time and effort.

And I agree that in some cases one-ways make sense. I would leave State/Union because of the high volume of traffic between I-95 and the stadium district even if it cuts off downtown from Springfield. That problem could be fixed with a combo of transit and foot bridges.

[JC]

How about left turns? 

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way. 

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time. 

[ChriswUfGator]

How about left turns? 

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way. 

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time. 

The convenience benefits of eliminating one-way streets far outweigh the downside of elimintating "Left on Red". Besides, most of the intersections down there have big "No Turn on Red" signs anyway, so it's a moot point...

[ChriswUfGator]

Just to set the record straight, I am in favor of modernizing our parking system....which means replacing meters throughout downtown with new meters that accept credit cards or having parking boxes (1 per block) that do the same....further, on selected blocks/streets, I would endorse removing the meters entirely and insted having time-limited free parking (anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours)....however, enforcement must still be a part of the plan...without it, office workers will use free parking spaces all day and there won't be available spaces on the street for shoppers/visitors.

Are you kidding? Even if you take COJ's B.S. estimate of 25,000 workers downtown (I believe the truth to be closer to 5,000 and dwindling by the day) then there are already way more parking spaces than people. What is gonna happen to make your doomsday scenario possible, Tufsu? So is every office worker going to drive down there, park a car, then run home and get their second car and park that one too? Oh wait...even if they brought 3 cars apiece...there's STILL way more parking than people!

Seriously I don't understand why you're so hell-bent on this viewpoint, it just makes no sense, and your viewpoint is the same view that has turned downtown into the wasteland it is today.

[Jaxson]

How about left turns?  

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way.  

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time.  

@JC -- You make an excellent point about how one-way streets make it easier to turn left.  It can be frustrating to have to wait for the light to cycle more than once because the car ahead of you is waiting to turn left from a two-way street onto another two-way street.

[JC]

How about left turns? 

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way. 

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time. 

The convenience benefits of eliminating one-way streets far outweigh the downside of elimintating "Left on Red". Besides, most of the intersections down there have big "No Turn on Red" signs anyway, so it's a moot point...

So you don't forsee a problem with a two lane two way street and people trying to make a left while blocking the intersection and the traffic behind them?  I think its not a moot point and I think it would create more aggravation than it would solve, simple because if you are paying attention most on way streets alternate so you don't need a degree to navigate them.

What are the benefits of changing back to two way streets?

[ChriswUfGator]

Um, are the one way streets really that confusing to people? Because that's just sad. Country mouse needs to visit city mouse more often...

No they're not confusing, it's just annoying. Who wants to drive in 10-block circles waiting at 50 red lights just to try and get to something that's located on a 1-way street? It's a hassle, and same as the parking meters and draconian enforcement policies, people will get sick of hassles and quit coming.