ACLU to COJ, stop prayer in chambers

[Cricket]

It may only be "taking a minute" but if it is saying Christianity is the faith that people in Jacksonville should be practicing, then the council needs to stop, no matter how much confidence and comfort Richard Clark finds in it

If I am not mistaken, there is a prayer said before every Congressional Session in DC. Is that saying Christianity is the faith that all Americans should be practising?

I don't know, I'm just asking.

[finehoe]

^^The U.S. House doesn't limit it to Christianity:  http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Muslim-Chaplain-Delivers-Prayer-for-US-House-of-Representatives-86257862.html

[Cricket]

^^The U.S. House doesn't limit it to Christianity:  http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Muslim-Chaplain-Delivers-Prayer-for-US-House-of-Representatives-86257862.html

Thanks. Well that's why I asked. I would be okay with a rotating prayer then if it would satisfy the ACLU. I suspect it would satisfy you too. Although some would prefer no prayer at all.

[stjr]

This issue isn't about the action or the time, it's about what the intentions truly are.

Prayer is a personal activity (or it should be).  The only reason to do it publicly (i.e. outside of a religious facility or beyond one's personal space) would appear to be to influence others or to serve notice to others that you plan to use your religion as the measure upon which you will conduct the business at hand.  That is not appropriate for a representative government-related event, function, or process.

By the way, when does Mr. Redman think it's appropriate to invoke prayer?  When he leaves the house?  Starts the car? Crosses the street?  Uses the restroom?  Meets a constituent?  What criteria does he and others use to invoke prayer at some times versus others?  If, as I suspect, he fails to offer nearly continuous prayers, it makes me wonder if the public display has anything to do with prayer as a practice versus trying to impose his beliefs on others.

[Jaxson]

The city council is not being very helpful with their attitude, either.  From their actions, I get the impression that they are telling us, "We don't really care that this city is culturally and religiously diverse.  We don't care that these politically correct groups are offended.  What we care about is showcasing our piousness for the community at large to prove the point that we have a superior religion.  All others be damned.  When it comes to 'outreach,' they can reach out to us."

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

If those folks are so Christian, they shouldn't pray at COJ meetings because it's in violation of a direct order from Jesus.

Matthew 6:5
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."

Now, I realize that city council meetings are not normally held in synagogues or on street corners, but the next verse nonetheless explicitly states that you are to do your praying someplace where nobody but God is going to hear you.

Matthew 6:6
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Such inconvenient bits of Scripture, eh?

[Ocklawaha]

^^The U.S. House doesn't limit it to Christianity:  http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Muslim-Chaplain-Delivers-Prayer-for-US-House-of-Representatives-86257862.html

Thanks. Well that's why I asked. I would be okay with a rotating prayer then if it would satisfy the ACLU. I suspect it would satisfy you too. Although some would prefer no prayer at all.

This appears where this is headed, and that's okay by me. We have become a cripple society when a dozen people can get on and whine about someone praying and asking for divine guidance for our broken city (God knows we need all the help we can get!) because it offends them while I can wear a "FUCK YOU!" Tee and be the toast of the party! 

This city is going to hell in more ways then one!

OCKLAWAHA

[Springfielder]

Although I agree that this city has been going to hell for years, that's undeniable. However, I still feel that it would resolve all issues, if they merely did what the schools do, say the pledge and then have a moment of silence. This not only allows a few moments for anyone who wishes to pray, but does not impose upon those who feel otherwise. It's such a simple solution, which is why I suppose the council will not do it. Now if the council members who are so inclined, they could meet as a group before going into the chamber, and hold a private prayer...which is another solution.

It's not removing prayer, it merely takes it to a personal level (which it should be, unless you're in a place of worship) and yet does not insult, impose that prayer upon those who wish not to participate in it. There are people of all faiths, denominations, cultures, etc., and not everyone prays the same...that's the basis of this issue, since the prayers that have been spoken are Christian based.

As for the ACLU being involved and people saying that they have no business doing so, this is exactly what the ACLU is all about, this is what they do. However, if this ends up in the court, the ACLU will have to make and prove their case...which isn't all that strong, legally.

[buckethead]

If those folks are so Christian, they shouldn't pray at COJ meetings because it's in violation of a direct order from Jesus.

Matthew 6:5
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."

Now, I realize that city council meetings are not normally held in synagogues or on street corners, but the next verse nonetheless explicitly states that you are to do your praying someplace where nobody but God is going to hear you.

Matthew 6:6
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Such inconvenient bits of Scripture, eh?

Excellent contribution.

[Springfielder]

Matthew 6:6
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Such inconvenient bits of Scripture, eh?

You should send that to Redman

[copperfiend]

Matthew 6:6
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Such inconvenient bits of Scripture, eh?

You should send that to Redman

Send it to the puppeteers that control him.

[mtraininjax]

Is it possible to nail the ACLU to a cross? Geez, these people need more to do.

[floridaforester]

mtrain, you can pray on your time b/c it seems like you need all the help you can get.  I've had enough of FBC running this town and its time that the city figured out that we are not all fundamentalist baptists awaiting the rapture.  As a native of jax, I can say that it really gets tiresome having their ideology shoved down our throats at every turn.

Enough is enough and thank Earth that the ACLU will stand up for the majority of folks that don't agree with fbc's indoctrination.

[Springfielder]

Is it possible to nail the ACLU to a cross? Geez, these people need more to do.

This is what the ACLU does, they protect civil rights from violation...and this is what lead to prayer being removed from the school systems. People didn't seem to mind them being involved when it came to pushing for fair treatment of minorities and other issues.  Whether you agree with it or not, this is why they're called American Civil Liberties Union.

There's a simple solution, but our city council is too arrogant to even take that into consideration...in other words, offer a moment of silence.

[Steve]

This was discussed on First Coast Connect last week.  I was one of the Media Panelists, one of the conclusions that we discussed was that if Redman didn't ask Dr. Ahmed to "Pray to his God", we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now.