ACLU to COJ, stop prayer in chambers

[Charles Hunter]

I think Clark's comments are especially disturbing....just because everyone on Council is currently Christian does not mean praying to Jesus is acceptable...remember, you represent ALL citizens!

That's the rub ... they are supposed to represent all the citizens, but some choose to represent only those who go to the "right" (in multiple senses) church (not temple, or synagogue, etc.)

[cityimrov]

I don't see anything wrong with a prayer before a meeting.  If people were respectful, kind, had honor, and treated each other the way they wanted to be treated - I wouldn't see any problem with prayer before a meeting.  The problem is - they aren't. 

Imagine if every new nominee, or developer, or petitioner were "forced" to say a prayer before the meeting.  Of course, they aren't "forced" but they would be highly looked down upon if they didn't and if they didn't say the right words.  Prayer in this city is now politics.  A forced religious test to determine if "we" the city should nominate or support your idea. 

If people were kind, curious, well behaved, listen, had manners, and basically understood their fellow human beings - prayer before the city council wouldn't be an issue.  After watching what Redman did though, I'm not sure the council can handle the giant responsibility of a prayer without vilifying their own fellow citizens.

[TheProfessor]

I don't see the point of the prayer in the first place??  It's not like they are going to war or saving the world.  Are their decisions that divine?  Just wasting peoples time when they should be debating.  Save church for your off time!

[Cricket]

I am not a proponent of prayer in these council meetings but I do find it odd that we seem to get more worked up about this ritual than we do about some of the decisions (or non-decisions) in these meetings that do more harm to our lives. If we could only be equally passionate about the results of these council meetings I think these people would get our attention and we would all be better off. But prayer I care little or nothing about.

[Jaxson]

@ Cricket --- That is an excellent point. 

[ben says]

I agree w/ what you are saying Cricket, good point, and definitely true.

That being said, whether we want to agree/disagree/admit/don't admit-prayer is that important.

I'm an atheist, so it's obviously not important to me, BUT...when every council meeting starts out with a prayer, by one religious group, it not only endorses that creed, but alienates others. It's this kind of attitude and sanctimonious holier-than-thou talk that keeps many smart, nonreligious (and religious) people out of participating in these meetings.

I, and a few friends of mine, went to a council meeting awhile back. You have to realize how hard it is to voice an opinion/thought when you are talking to a zealot. While they are strong in their faith, they are equally strong in their opinions...it's hard breaking through that outer shell in all things, not just city council meetings and religion. Why? Because they don't answer to rationality as a be-all-end-all. They listen to themselves, and 'their book'. They have nobody else to answer to when they are literally saved.

[BridgeTroll]

Through the years I have encountered many circumstances where a group is asked to pray.  A few were Jewish, a few were Muslim, many were christian denominations I was unfamiliar with.  I was taught to simply respect the moment.  You do not have to pray.  When I have been asked to pray during a ceremony of some sort I simply bow my head respectfully and let whomever is praying do so.  I, nor anyone else should really be offended.  It is certainly not meant as an offense.  A question for those who find the act of prayer offensive... what is your reaction when eating at someones house that offers a prayer before meals?  I assume you just respectfully bow your head and let those who wish to... pray.

This really should be a non issue.

[buckethead]

Prayer should never be tolerated.

[TheProfessor]

This is not a ceremony, it is a city council meeting for goodness sake!

[finehoe]

A question for those who find the act of prayer offensive... what is your reaction when eating at someones house that offers a prayer before meals?  I assume you just respectfully bow your head and let those who wish to... pray.

There's a differrence between the privacy of someone's home and a public venue.

[duvaldude08]

Through the years I have encountered many circumstances where a group is asked to pray.  A few were Jewish, a few were Muslim, many were christian denominations I was unfamiliar with.  I was taught to simply respect the moment.  You do not have to pray.  When I have been asked to pray during a ceremony of some sort I simply bow my head respectfully and let whomever is praying do so.  I, nor anyone else should really be offended.  It is certainly not meant as an offense.  A question for those who find the act of prayer offensive... what is your reaction when eating at someones house that offers a prayer before meals?  I assume you just respectfully bow your head and let those who wish to... pray.

This really should be a non issue.

exactly!Same here. Also, I have never been to fond of the ACLU. You can not dectate to someone when and where they can pray in certain situations. We are supposed to have freedom of religion, but if you are chrisitian you are not allowed to talk about it, pray, speak the name of jesus, etc in public. Yet if you are muslim, we are obligated to allow them to pray 3 times a day. Is it just me or does that seem a little funny? It has never bothered me. When I was growing up, if you didnt believe in something, you didnt participate in it. Simple as that.

[Cricket]

That being said, whether we want to agree/disagree/admit/don't admit-prayer is that important.

Well then I ask you to open your wallet this minute and tell me if you are offended by "In God We Trust" imprinted on every piece of paper money, which is essentially an affirmation of faith. Personally it wouldn't matter to me one way or the other if it stays or if the Treasury Dept decided tomorrow to remove it. And I am sure you will continue to love those $100 bills with or without this declaration of religious faith.

[lindab]

Whatever happened to the "moment of silence" - certainly a moment in which our leaders could be thinking what wise decisions they might enact. Cricket, I'm with you.

[buckethead]

I don't believe it^, but found it funny, never the less.

[BridgeTroll]

Whatever happened to the "moment of silence"

This seems a perfectly fitting alternative... regardless... I have never understood the objections of the folks who want a short prayer banned from these types of functions.  Seems a lot of uproar about nothing.  Respect the moment and move on...