ACLU to COJ, stop prayer in chambers

[reednavy]

None of this would be happening if Councilman Redman would've stfu during the whole Dr. Ahmed fiasco. Instead, he had to open his mouth and then tried to clarify his statement, sorry, we knew exactly what you were getting at, and now look.

[buckethead]

That'll teach those Christofascists.

[hanjin1]

That being said, whether we want to agree/disagree/admit/don't admit-prayer is that important.

Well then I ask you to open your wallet this minute and tell me if you are offended by "In God We Trust" imprinted on every piece of paper money, which is essentially an affirmation of faith. Personally it wouldn't matter to me one way or the other if it stays or if the Treasury Dept decided tomorrow to remove it. And I am sure you will continue to love those $100 bills with or without this declaration of religious faith.

you could always just use your debit or credit card and not have to read this

[BridgeTroll]

None of this would be happening if Councilman Redman would've stfu during the whole Dr. Ahmed fiasco. Instead, he had to open his mouth and then tried to clarify his statement, sorry, we knew exactly what you were getting at, and now look.

Exactly Reed.  This seems to be nothing more than political payback...

[finehoe]

What are these prayers before the meeting supposed to accomplish?  To what end is the whole exercise aimed at?

[BridgeTroll]

What are these prayers before the meeting supposed to accomplish?  To what end is the whole exercise aimed at?

I assume it is akin to praying before a meal or some other gathering.  I myself do not participate... but I am not offended either.  Taking 1 minute to respect the moment others might feel compelled to participate in shouldnt ruffle anyones feathers.

[Cricket]

What are these prayers before the meeting supposed to accomplish?  To what end is the whole exercise aimed at?

There are plenty of rituals that are performed every day in our lives that we never question, like in courthouses, legislative chambers, board meetings, boy scout meetings (LOL). Should we abandon every exercise because they don't serve the ultimate purpose of the meeting?

[finehoe]

What are these prayers before the meeting supposed to accomplish?  To what end is the whole exercise aimed at?

I assume it is akin to praying before a meal or some other gathering.  I myself do not participate... but I am not offended either.  Taking 1 minute to respect the moment others might feel compelled to participate in shouldnt ruffle anyones feathers.

So it's to ask some supernatural being to "bless" the proceedings?  Maybe they should drown a virgin in the St. Johns prior to each meeting.  It would be just as effective.

Should we abandon every exercise because they don't serve the ultimate purpose of the meeting?

Should we mindlessly follow tradition just because that is what has always been done?  If there is no rational purpose in it, why do it.

Maybe you all aren't bothered by our tax dollars being used to reinforce superstition, but plenty of people are, myself included.

[BridgeTroll]

You seem so... upset and offended by it.  Why?  It takes all of a minute.  The people doing it see the purpose and seem to find confidence and comfort in it.  Why should that bother you?

[Cricket]

Should we mindlessly follow tradition just because that is what has always been done?  If there is no rational purpose in it, why do it.

And if we as taxpayers ranted about hours of purposeless meetings with no results the way we rant about one minute of prayer we would all be better off.

[Dog Walker]

Teapot + tempest.  There are more important things the ACLU could be using its resources for even in Jacksonville.

[BridgeTroll]

No doubt...    It is achieving its goal though.  High visibility and emotional rhetoric... and political payback for Redmans stunt.

[Jaxson]

I think Clark's comments are especially disturbing....just because everyone on Council is currently Christian does not mean praying to Jesus is acceptable...remember, you represent ALL citizens!

That's the rub ... they are supposed to represent all the citizens, but some choose to represent only those who go to the "right" (in multiple senses) church (not temple, or synagogue, etc.)

That is where the issue becomes murky.  We all know that Jacksonville is a city of many faiths.  The problem arise when some city leaders view a simple invocation as a moment to make a 'statement' that places their faith above all others.  Or when other city leaders believe that city council proceedings are the platform from which it is proper to indoctrinate the unconverted.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a simple expression of faith, but it doesn't seem that simple in our fair city...

[finehoe]

You seem so... upset and offended by it.  Why?  It takes all of a minute.  The people doing it see the purpose and seem to find confidence and comfort in it.  Why should that bother you?

LOL.  I'm not upset, although I do find it tiresome that religious people continually try to force their silly superstitions down everyone else's throat.  

"The practice that the city is doing right now basically says Christianity is the faith that people in Jacksonville should be practicing," said Benetta Standly, of the ACLU. "We want the city to really respect the diversity of all the people in the city."

It may only be "taking a minute" but if it is saying Christianity is the faith that people in Jacksonville should be practicing, then the council needs to stop, no matter how much confidence and comfort Richard Clark finds in it.  If he is unable to perform without engaging in this ritual, he should either resign or do it by himself before the meeting begins.

[Jaxson]

^This is why I love finehoe!  It looks like city leaders are unable to distinguish between a good faith (pardon the pun) expression of spiritual goodwill and using their public positions as a bully pulpit (pardon the pun) from which to manipulate people's personal beliefs.  Yes, this city is predominantly Christian.  Yes, government on various levels incorporates some kind of Christian prayer into their functions.  But, it bothers me when our leaders, who happen to be Christian, assert that religious minorities should quit their griping because they really do not have a place in the public dialogue - unless they plan to convert sometime soon...