Unions and what they are doing to our country

[finehoe]

If I set the value of my labor at $2500.00 per hour, and no one is willing to pay that, I would do well to re-evaluate.

Unless you're a "too big to fail" bank, in which case you can value your off-balance sheet toxic "assets" at 100 cents on the dollar even though they are worthless on the open market.

[buckethead]

I do not disagree. There is a pendulum, however.

Many unions are cannibalizing the companies that feed their members. Unions are a business. (Just like BP)

Every cause becomes a business. Every business becomes a racket.

Someone Else

[buckethead]

If I set the value of my labor at $2500.00 per hour, and no one is willing to pay that, I would do well to re-evaluate.

Unless you're a "too big to fail" bank, in which case you can value your off-balance sheet toxic "assets" at 100 cents on the dollar even though they are worthless on the open market.

Now we are getting into crony capitalism/corporate welfare.

I was for it before I was against it.

[JC]

I do not disagree. There is a pendulum, however.

Many unions are cannibalizing the companies that feed their members. Unions are a business. (Just like BP)

Every cause becomes a business. Every business becomes a racket.

Someone Else

Yes, there are flaws in organized labor but they are a response to a system which requires their existence, yes, the pendulum swings! 

[Captain Zissou]

I do not disagree. There is a pendulum, however.

Many unions are cannibalizing the companies that feed their members. Unions are a business. (Just like BP)

Every cause becomes a business. Every business becomes a racket.

Someone Else

Agreed.

[buckethead]

As long as we're not delving into absolutisms, yes.

[CS Foltz]

Free market yes...........principles of value for value .......yes also! I believe there are some organizations that were based, operate on that also, on just that premise! Todays age, based upon me first, would not work out too well under that umbrella though stephen!

[buckethead]

I would never suggest a group of workers should not have the right to set a value for the price of their labor, skilled or unskilled.

To imply that unions are simply a group of workers seeking to set a fair value for their labor is a bit disingenuous. I can attest to my experience as a Teamster working for UPS.

That particular union was a very intimidating beast, that you don't cross. I learned this when I returned from NYC during the strike (96ish). When going to retrieve my check due to me for work performed prior to the strike, I feared for my safety.

Explaining that I was a union member here to collect my wages afforded me no favor with the thugs at the gate. (People I had never seen before) Crossing the picket line was a crime punishable by threats and intimidation.

I crossed, got my pay, and never returned. BTW, I was not unhappy with the wage level I received there.

Unions have largely made workers into pawns for union hierarchy to use for the purpose of acquiring wealth and power.

[Jaxson]

The problem with labor unions is the same problem that exists when any organization becomes large enough to be an 'institution.'  Governments, religions, and corporations are examples of what happens when the institution overshadows the people that it is supposed to serve. 
In the early years, a group of people start off with a common purpose.  They are often alternately praised and derided as being renegade, revolutionary or righteous.  As the movement gains popularity, its influence begins to change the landscape.  The problem is when any organization consolidates its power and then becomes part of the establishment it sought to change.
Hierarchy and power are what can corrupt even the most noble cause.  I just find it to be disingenuous for critics of labor unions to condemn the labor movement because of excesses that we will often tolerate on Capitol Hill or in the corporate boardroom.
We like to complain how the Democrats or Republicans are in the pockets of the moneyed classes, but we refuse to consider any reasonable way to give the working classes a fair hearing in the corridors of power.
We like to complain about how more people are subsisting on the public dole and how they do not value work, but we do not seek out fair and safe working conditions for those who do work for a living.
We like to talk about how the free market will weed out business and employers that mistreat their workers but we will gladly buy products from businesses that shortchange or abuse their workers simply because we want a deep discount.   
Should we reform the excesses of the labor movement?  Yes.  Should we allow this to be an excuse to allow working men and women to become a doormat for the same politicians and businessmen who ran our economy into the ground?  NO!

[MusicMan]

Would someone stick a copy of Newsweek up Mort Zuckerman's rear end?!?  He notes the combined 50 states
face a budget shortfall of $180 Billion. Does he mention that the 23 largest Wall Street firms are paying $140 Billion in bonuses this year? I didn't think so. I bet he doesn't mention that all 23 of those firms combined to produce absolutely not one thing. Well, they almost produced the Second Great Depression.

[BridgeTroll]

I bet he doesn't mention that all 23 of those firms combined to produce absolutely not one thing.

Produce nothing?

An investment bank is a financial institution that assists corporations and governments in raising capital by underwriting and acting as the agent in the issuance of securities. An investment bank also assists companies involved in mergers and acquisitions, derivatives, etc. Further it provides ancillary services such as market making and the trading of derivatives, fixed income instruments, foreign exchange, commodity, and equity securities.

Does he mention that the 23 largest Wall Street firms are paying $140 Billion in bonuses this year?

Seems like a pretty good compensation package... Talk about motivation...

Investment banks such as Goldman and Morgan Stanley typically pay employees about 50% of revenue. The rate is lower at commercial banks, whose tellers and other retail-banking employees earn less than traders.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125547830510183749.html

[buckethead]

Buckethead.  Your only complaint with your union was that the picket line was too thuggish?

Well dont go to the supermarkets off of firestone avenue then!.

But you got good pay for a good job?

Surely they woke you up in the middle of the night and forced you to recite Mary had a Little Lamb until they broke you down!

Or something, right?

My complaint with the Teamsters was the intimidation and threat of bodily injury I was subjected to for getting my paycheck. This is after explaining that I was a union member, and not going in to work. It wasn't even my shift. (3am) This was just my very limited experience, and only serves as an anecdote.
Unions have served (and still do) a valuable function to society. My contention is the perpetual pendulum has swung too far towards the advantage of union hierarchy that does not have its members wellbeing as their top priority. One might think the profitability of an employer should come into play at some point. No employer, no union member.

I am not anti-union.

[finehoe]

Produce nothing?

Produce fraud. They gamed the system through accounting fraud. In the financial sector, accounting is the weapon of choice. And accounting fraud when you are a publicly traded firm â€" and these were all publically traded firms â€" is a felony.

Talk about motivation...

Motivation to steal.  The FBI has testified that in 80 percent of the mortgage-fraud losses, lender personal were involved in the frauds. In other words, these frauds were led from the top, but there hasn’t been a single conviction of a senior lender for this kind of fraud.

[buckethead]

Could it be that regulatory enforcement, legislators, and wall st execs are in bed together?

[finehoe]

^^ya think?