St. Augustine Selects Location for Amtrak Station

[danno]

Just sent my letter to Mr Senger as well.

[Murjax]

The longest discussion that went on was the crossing of US 1 by pedestrians, in fact it was nearly beat to death. Overpasses would kill the view that they want to market. Beyond that pedestrian crossings, every corner, the fire station stoplight, even shuttles, until I had a "DUH!" moment and suggested we move the entry drive North on US 1, as many blocks as it takes to make a safe crossing. Everyone pounced on that and we ended up with Carrera (Boulevard) Street. It didn't dawn on us in the meeting, but looking at the maps, Carrera couldn't be more perfect as it is a straight shot to the heart of the Ancient City, and far enough from the traffic back ups at US 1 and King to be easily crossed with signals.

I guess a signaled crossing at Carrera would work with just 2 Amtrak trains daily, but what if St. Augustine were ever to get commuter rail? This would result in a constant flow of people coming to and from the station, especially on weekends when a great deal of Jacksonville residents come down to St. Augustine for a day trip. Since passengers discharging from trains come in large groups, the crossing would have to be clear for a lot longer than the 10 seconds that most crossings are. Wouldn't this still make a crossing at Carrera a strain on traffic?

[thelakelander]

I don't see why it would become such a big issue.  People cross busier streets on foot in thousands of cities across the US.  Signalizing the intersection and providing some pedestrian/traffic calming enhancements in the immediate area should be fine, imo.  I also don't see it becoming a strain on traffic.  Its only one additional signalized intersection and to be honest, traffic through there should probably be slowed down anyway.

[Ocklawaha]

I guess a signaled crossing at Carrera would work with just 2 Amtrak trains daily, but what if St. Augustine were ever to get commuter rail? This would result in a constant flow of people coming to and from the station, especially on weekends when a great deal of Jacksonville residents come down to St. Augustine for a day trip. Since passengers discharging from trains come in large groups, the crossing would have to be clear for a lot longer than the 10 seconds that most crossings are. Wouldn't this still make a crossing at Carrera a strain on traffic?

Not really an issue at this stage and perhaps 15 years out. Amtrak "now" plans 6 daily trains, 3 each way. Money has it that the Palmetto will again be extended to Miami and with luck, an overnight schedule will be created that will make for great intra-state travel. The other two are more then likely going to be sections of the Silver Star and Silver Meteor, both Southbound in the AM, Northbound in the PM.

Commuter rail plays a minor roll at Carrera Street as it WILL NOT be a park and ride station, but it will be served by transit buses and trams. West Augustine is the spot for a large park and ride facility. Airport station will also be just a commuter stop and the only parking will be in the airport itself. I doubt many will want to pay for that short term lot just to go to work.

Don't expect JTA commuter Rail to be much more then 5 or 6 schedules in daily and a like number outbound with perhaps 2 reverse trips, maybe 3 between JTB and JAX TERMINAL.



OCKLAWAHA

[Jason]

I don't see why it would become such a big issue.  People cross busier streets on foot in thousands of cities across the US.  Signalizing the intersection and providing some pedestrian/traffic calming enhancements in the immediate area should be fine, imo.  I also don't see it becoming a strain on traffic.  Its only one additional signalized intersection and to be honest, traffic through there should probably be slowed down anyway.

Exactly!  The Square and bayfront can see just as much traffic (although not as fast) but people still find ways to cross safely in masses.

IMO, St. Augustine is the one NEFLA city that understands the pedestrian and fully embraces them, even along US-1.  This line should also help that corridor to densify and weed out the car oriented development that has littered it for so many years.

Just drop in a steady stream of trams in the short term and start planning for streetcars and any crossing issues will weed themselves out.

[Mattius92]

Streetcars would be a really good addition to St. Augustine, however there trolleys are alright, but they aren't streetcars. While I am for modern looking streetcars for downtown Jax, St. Augustine needs to find them some retro streetcars.

What is so great about streetcars is there is so many types and looks of them, its almost like a form of poeple-moving hot rod.

[Jason]

A historic streetcar would be a must in order to fit the St. Augustine vernacular.  I do like the articulated trams but they are better utilized for tours.  Fixed transit would be an amazing boon for the core area and allow infill to follow.

[Ocklawaha]

Hells bells, St. Augustine would look good with horsecars!

Likewise, a Heritage Streetcar would be a perfect fit in the historic fabric of downtown Jacksonville, as well as Brooklyn, Riverside, Avondale, Fairfax, Ortega, Murray Hill, Lackawanna, Durkeeville, LaVilla, Fairfield, Springfield, Brentwood, Phoenix, Panama Park, St Nicholas, San Jose and San Marco! After all, streetcars are responsible for building all of them.

But I AGREE with Lake, FSUJAX and others that modern LRV'S would look KILLER GOOD tooling down Philips, Blanding, Arlington Expy, Beach, JTB, Southside etc... etc...

I will be first to suggest a totally "green" system in Jacksonville, using methane gas to generate electric power. Calgary has it's RIDE THE WIND LRT system which is totally wind powered, and ours? well? FLORIDA AREA RAPID TRANSIT .... ride the Fart!

OCKLAWAHA

[aaapolito]

Update: http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2010-06-24/story/st-augustine-ready-designate-amtrak-station-san-marco-avenue

[thelakelander]

So they changed their mind and have decided to go with station north of town because of cost concerns. Hopefully, they'll have some sort of transit service to connect riders to downtown.

[St. Auggie]

Wasnt the WHOLE POINT of the stimulus funds to create jobs? Which one would create more jobs: a repurposing or a whole new station, which they will want to build in the future anyways. Why waste the money when the jobs would help  now and not waste taxpayers money later.  Ohhh, thats right, we are talking about the government.  Carry on.

[tufsu1]

So they changed their mind and have decided to go with station north of town because of cost concerns. Hopefully, they'll have some sort of transit service to connect riders to downtown.

they will...the County runs the Sunsine Bus service...and planning is already underway to restructure some routes if Amtrak service returns...and actually, one of the current routes already serves the site and downtown.

as for building at the new site...I think there may be some major environmental issues in that open field (its likley at least partially wet)...so choosing the other site may expedite the project.

[JeffreyS]

The most interesting part is the side article.

http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2010-06-24/story/st-augustine-ready-designate-amtrak-station-san-marco-avenue

What about Jacksonville?
It isn’t often that St. Augustine takes priority over Jacksonville, but in this case the smaller city is the most important.
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority is hoping to create a new train station at the Prime Osborn Convention Center around the time the Florida East Coast rail line starts being used for Amtrak service from Jacksonville to Miami.
But advocates for the Florida East Coast line have not focused on Jacksonville, since an Amtrak station is already available on Clifford Lane.
“We need St. Augustine to designate a station,” said  Kim Delaney, growth management coordinator for the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council. “It would be nice if Jacksonville could get to the Prime Osborn, but it’s not necessary.”
The existing station on Clifford Lane would close if the Prime Osborn becomes operational.
The JTA wants to turn the entire convention center into a transportation facility that would house buses, the Skyway and possibly commuter and high-speed rail sometime in the future. This would cost about $180 million.
But JTA Executive Director Michael Blaylock said it might be possible to open a train station at the location while the building is still being used as a convention center.

[thelakelander]

^It is possible to open a no-frills affordable station at the Prime Osborn, sooner rather than later.  I've been working with Ock to draw up a conceptual plan.  Hopefully, we can get it up online within the next week or so.

[Jason]

I can see the benefits of both locations.  The old station has some growing room and would allow for a great streetcar connection to the core via San Marco Ave.  The line would easily pick up 90% of the core destinations.

I think I'm still a bit more stuck on how great a station at US1 and Saratoga would look and how it will help to significantly revitalize the area.  I guess the same could be said for the other location.