Questions about bigotry.

[JC]

JC, I understand that our difference is that you believe that religious objections to homosexuality or gay marriage is bigotry while I believe that they have a legitimate right to that belief without the power of the State to discriminate.  I believe the key is the portion of my argument "without the power of the State to discriminate".  But if you don't think that is enough, OK.  We just don't agree, that's all.

Ok, this is the last time I will address this. 

a)  I am not arguing that the state should interfere in the superstitions of religion.  The mere suggestion that I am is a lie, nothing more.

b)  If you want to be a bigot it is your prerogative, however, by the same power, I can and will oppose your point of view as I see fit. 

c) You are using religion as an EXCUSE for bigotry, which is at the heart of the problem and by making excuses for it you are also being a bigot.

As for your interactions with others, yes, that will happen.  People are not required to like you.  I don't associate with a lot of people because of different personal behaviors that they have.  That is my right.  I know that it is hard to believe, but there are actually people who don't like me and don't associate with me for some reason!  Why, I don't get along with some of the big wigs where I work because of differing values and ideas, and I am also sure that will limit my advancement opportunities.  (At least as long as they are there.)  I went to Key West a while back and I was actually turned away at a hotel on Duval because I am not gay.  (Some kind of event)  I must admit I was shocked, but in the long run it was no big deal and we probably would not have enjoyed being around intolerance anyway.

Who said anything about liking?  I am talking about systematic discrimination based on religion, or lack thereof.

The point is that people will always discriminate in some ways.

So just accept it?  Its easy to say if you are part of, what I refer to as, the club. 
 

One of the beautiful things about this country is that with just a little thick skin, you can go your own way.

Seriously, I dont need life lessons from you, I am getting along just fine!  You are making this personal and you know nothing about me. 

[NotNow]

OK buddy!  I think we are done.  Have a good day.

[Sportmotor]

If you poor lost people would just follow the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and repent...REPENT I SAY!

[NotNow]

If you poor lost people would just follow the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and repent...REPENT I SAY!

Just don't shake hands in that church!

[CS Foltz]

Yea............with either hand!;)

[Sportmotor]

If you poor lost people would just follow the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and repent...REPENT I SAY!

Just don't shake hands in that church!

Dont be mad becuase my god has bigger balls then yours

[JC]

NN,

You still have not covered those "very good" reasons.  I would love to hear them.

[NotNow]

NN,

You still have not covered those "very good" reasons.  I would love to hear them.

What reasons are those? 

[JC]

why not be honest.  when a post has been modified, there is a modified post notation at the bottom right of the posting.  you can link to my post yourself and see it has been unchanged.

Here is yours:

For many, their religion IS life.  It is their reason for being and their love of their God is as strong as any love you have ever felt.  Then they are faced with someone who practices what their religious institution teaches is a sin.  The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage.  Then the man or woman demanding to participate insults what they call the two thousand year old superstitious fiction that is the entire basis of life to our religious person.

Please reread your words where you say "The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage."

Can you explain please, what were you thinking when you typed this?

[NotNow]

why not be honest.  when a post has been modified, there is a modified post notation at the bottom right of the posting.  you can link to my post yourself and see it has been unchanged.

Here is yours:

For many, their religion IS life.  It is their reason for being and their love of their God is as strong as any love you have ever felt.  Then they are faced with someone who practices what their religious institution teaches is a sin.  The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage.  Then the man or woman demanding to participate insults what they call the two thousand year old superstitious fiction that is the entire basis of life to our religious person.

Please reread your words where you say "The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage."

Can you explain please, what were you thinking when you typed this?

"Marriage" is a religious institution.  When you want to participate, you are partaking in a religious ceremony.  No one has a "right" to participate in any religious ceremony.  If the organization that represents that religion refused your participation, that is their right.

And, as I have stated over and over again, any discrimination in legal rights by the State is wrong and should be corrected.  I just think that ALL discrimination in this area should be done away with.

[ChriswUfGator]

Humans are fallible, anything humans make is thus, fallible. Humans wrote the bible. Thus the bible is fallible.

Lets not forget that in teh way back when the bible was a means of power, such as the catlickers church priests making you pay to get into heaven in alot of points in the bible. Who also would excommunicate you if you thought the earth was anything but flat, or if you believed in science. If you believed in anything that the people who were running around yelling do this not this cause its in a book, then you are wrong and going to hell and are sinning and are bad and deserve aids and all that other bs. Its always been that way.

The bible Nay RELIGION has always been the strongest form of control in the history of man. What is stronger then scaring someone into thinking if you do this, you will burn and be tormented for all eternity unless you listen to me because god spoke to me, and if you don't believe me that's fine have fun in hell. Uh nothing.

That was an intelligent post and I totally agree with you. Now who are you and what did you do with Sportmotor?

The bible served its purpose back in the day, before uniform laws and the means to enforce them existed. But now everyone recognizes most of its do's/don't do's are completely ridiculous and outdated. Except the gay thing, these idiots argue. Christians sure seem to have no problem with divorce, given the 70%+ divorce rate, and a lot of them have no problem with adultery, as you can watch another one getting busted (usually in a gay scandal, ironically enough) on the news weekly.

And let's not forget that coveting your neighbor's ox or working on Sunday are both worse sins in the bible than homosexuality. Those are actual commandments, but you have to go and dig up some vague reference buried in leviticus before you get to the gay = sin language. If indeed that's even what the drafter's intent was. All of that stuff has been translated so many times in and out of different languages, and the originals lost, that we'll never know what the actual intent was.

So WTF? Why fixate on that one thing? Nobody follows the dietary prohibitions, which are also worse sins than homosexuality, according to the bible. Why? Not like we don't know the answer to that question = political and economic convenience. Give people a straw man to get fired up about and out come the checkbooks. Tell them they can't eat something, or have to stay married to someone they hate, and supply and demand takes its toll as they find another church.

Bu$iness at its finest.

[ChriswUfGator]

why not be honest.  when a post has been modified, there is a modified post notation at the bottom right of the posting.  you can link to my post yourself and see it has been unchanged.

Here is yours:

For many, their religion IS life.  It is their reason for being and their love of their God is as strong as any love you have ever felt.  Then they are faced with someone who practices what their religious institution teaches is a sin.  The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage.  Then the man or woman demanding to participate insults what they call the two thousand year old superstitious fiction that is the entire basis of life to our religious person.

Please reread your words where you say "The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage."

Can you explain please, what were you thinking when you typed this?

"Marriage" is a religious institution.  When you want to participate, you are partaking in a religious ceremony.  No one has a "right" to participate in any religious ceremony.  If the organization that represents that religion refused your participation, that is their right.

And, as I have stated over and over again, any discrimination in legal rights by the State is wrong and should be corrected.  I just think that ALL discrimination in this area should be done away with.

Really? Then why is it that you can get married at any city hall or courthouse then?

Any lawyer can marry you. Any notary public can marry you. It's a conveyance of rights. Where's the religion?

[Sportmotor]

Humans are fallible, anything humans make is thus, fallible. Humans wrote the bible. Thus the bible is fallible.

Lets not forget that in teh way back when the bible was a means of power, such as the catlickers church priests making you pay to get into heaven in alot of points in the bible. Who also would excommunicate you if you thought the earth was anything but flat, or if you believed in science. If you believed in anything that the people who were running around yelling do this not this cause its in a book, then you are wrong and going to hell and are sinning and are bad and deserve aids and all that other bs. Its always been that way.

The bible Nay RELIGION has always been the strongest form of control in the history of man. What is stronger then scaring someone into thinking if you do this, you will burn and be tormented for all eternity unless you listen to me because god spoke to me, and if you don't believe me that's fine have fun in hell. Uh nothing.

That was an intelligent post and I totally agree with you. Now who are you and what did you do with Sportmotor?

I have my moments were I can take the time to post rather then troll for my amusement.

[ChriswUfGator]

why not be honest.  when a post has been modified, there is a modified post notation at the bottom right of the posting.  you can link to my post yourself and see it has been unchanged.

Here is yours:

For many, their religion IS life.  It is their reason for being and their love of their God is as strong as any love you have ever felt.  Then they are faced with someone who practices what their religious institution teaches is a sin.  The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage.  Then the man or woman demanding to participate insults what they call the two thousand year old superstitious fiction that is the entire basis of life to our religious person.

Please reread your words where you say "The religious institution classifies many things as a "sin".  Most for a very good reason, some are not so clear.  But they are face with this person who is arguing that he or she has an "equal right" to participate in what to most of the world's religions is a sacred sacrement, marriage."

Can you explain please, what were you thinking when you typed this?

"Marriage" is a religious institution.  When you want to participate, you are partaking in a religious ceremony.  No one has a "right" to participate in any religious ceremony.  If the organization that represents that religion refused your participation, that is their right.

And, as I have stated over and over again, any discrimination in legal rights by the State is wrong and should be corrected.  I just think that ALL discrimination in this area should be done away with.

So let's ask this then. Have you ever been divorced?

And everyone else defending this outright bigotry, please answer that question as well. And these;

Ever eat pork? Ever work on Sunday? Ever say "goddamn" in your life? Ever tell a lie in your life?

My personal favorite is, of course, Exodus 20:17:

17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

So tell me then, do you condone slavery? Because a stronger case could be made that this language signals the bible's acceptance of slavery, than the language in leviticus signals its rejection of homosexuality. There seems to be some underlying acceptance of homosexuality in that passage, actually, doesn't there? Why say "male or female"? Why not just say "slave"? Hmm...

So answer the above questions. Each of these items is a worse sin in the bible than homosexuality, I know you've done at least a couple of them. So I guess I can look down on you now, fantastic!

[ChriswUfGator]

Hey, one more, for all of you defending this, are you married? Are you female and do you sing in church? Does your wife?

Sin sin sin...