The Power of Rail: Urban Chicago

[stjr]

I use the CTA bus tracker on my iphone and can time my elevator ride down to the street from my apt. on cold days.  Most of the buses are new clean air hybrid vehicles and are very nice to ride, always clean.  With a CTA card in my wallet I can hold the wallet up against the magnetic scanner on every train and bus and never need to worry about having cash or change, a registered credit card is charged electronically.  You do not even have to take the card out of the wallet.

How does this compare to JTA's "method of operation"?  We can do this now with the existing system.  This might boost mass transit far better than expanding the $ky-high-way, building BRT, or even building more bus shelters.

[cline]

We can do this now with the existing system.  This might boost mass transit far better than expanding the $ky-high-way, building BRT, or even building more bus shelters.

Wow, so that's all it will take to boost ridership- an Iphone app and a magnetic card system?  Perhaps you should throw your hat in for the next general consultant contract JTA advertises.

The CTA works because it efficiently connects to places people want to go, Chicago is a very walkable city (as mentioned previously), and parking can be very difficult within the city.

[stjr]

Wow, so that's all it will take to boost ridership- an Iphone app and a magnetic card system?  Perhaps you should throw your hat in for the next general consultant contract JTA advertises.

Cline, I didn't say it was a panacea as you represent.  I did say an improvement like that might contribute more than some other "improvements" (or, maybe, expensive "detractions" ) that are being considered for boosting ridership. 

Put me in charge, and I would likely rip up everything we do now and start with a clean slate, given that little we are doing now could be held up as a "mass transit success".  And, yes, based on current results, I do think I and, probably, a lot of other people would make better "general consultants" to JTA than whoever is doing that job now.

[cline]

I did say an improvement like that might contribute more than some other "improvements" (or, maybe, expensive "detractions" ) that are being considered for boosting ridership.

So do you consider potential commuter rail and streetcar expensive detractions?

Of course it would be wonderful to be able to just rip out everything and start with a clean slate as you say.  Unfortunately, that might take slightly more funds than are available at the moment.  At this point, we need to work on complimenting and enhancing which to me, means getting at least one commuter route in place to start as well as a streetcar line.  I think those would boost ridership.

[tufsu1]

Put me in charge, and I would likely rip up everything we do now and start with a clean slate, given that little we are doing now could be held up as a "mass transit success".  And, yes, based on current results, I do think I and, probably, a lot of other people would make better "general consultants" to JTA than whoever is doing that job now.[/b]

Good luck w/ that stjr....if you want to see wholesale transit changes in action, take a look at StarMetro in Tallahassee and their nova2010 plan....

http://www.talgov.com/starmetro/nova2010.cfm

Then take a look at the public comments they've been getting!

[stjr]

I did say an improvement like that might contribute more than some other "improvements" (or, maybe, expensive "detractions" ) that are being considered for boosting ridership.

So do you consider potential commuter rail and streetcar expensive detractions?

Cline, do you read my posts?  Compare your comment above with what I actually posted below.  Where did I mention commuter rail and streetcars?  I support both of these and deliberately did not cite those as examples for that reason.  Further, I was suggesting that we pick off the low hanging fruit that gives us maximum bang for the buck.  That really doesn't exclude any other project, it just determines maybe what we do first.  But, if you don't want to hear the message, I can't make you.

This might boost mass transit far better than expanding the $ky-high-way, building BRT, or even building more bus shelters.

[cline]

You are correct, I did lump commuter rail and streetcar in, but I just don't agree that a JTA Iphone app will increase ridership more than a Skyway extension, BRT system or building more bus shelters.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to have, but I don't think would increase ridership by any significance. 

[cybertique]

The simple fact is that there are so few buses in Jax.  A few of my employees use the bus system there and they sit at the bus stop for what seems an eternity.  Who wants to sit for 45 minutes waiting in that oppressive  Florida heat for a bus.  And to copperfiend,  our winters are no more brutal than the summers in Fl, summers that never seem to end.  The extreme heat and humidity in the south was my primary reason to choose a northern city for a second home. 

[stjr]

You are correct, I did lump commuter rail and streetcar in, but I just don't agree that a JTA Iphone app will increase ridership more than a Skyway extension, BRT system or building more bus shelters.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to have, but I don't think would increase ridership by any significance. 

My point is the small relative investment in these technologies would give a far greater return on the dollar than the other investments cited.  And, they could be implemented within months, not years or decades.

I do believe that the $ky-high-way, in particular, does actually run off more people than it attracts, even if expanded as some advocate.  It just isn't capable of meeting commuter expectations and needs.

I suspect the BRT really won't make a difference one way or the other thus giving little to negative return on investment.

Now, knowing when exactly your bus is about to arrive (or, if it is EVER going to arrive!) is a great confidence builder for riders looking for reliability and predictability and would greatly encourage repeat business.  Nothing is worse than waiting without knowing.

Likewise, paying without cash, and on a speedy basis, significantly creates convenience to riders and supports greater impulse ridership.  It's the same motivaton for businesses to take credit cards even though the processing fees are close to extortion for them.

[Lunican]

CTA Blue Line vs. the Kennedy Expressway

http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/ria/ShizVidz-2010012201.swf?s=ZT0xJmk9ODYwODA5NDQ1Jms9Zzg1aEsmYT04NTE3NzQ0X2I0WnQ1JnU9bWV0cm9qYWNrc29udmlsbGU=

http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/ria/ShizVidz-2010012201.swf?s=ZT0xJmk9ODYwODA2NDIzJms9NXlMU1EmYT04NTE3NzQ0X2I0WnQ1JnU9bWV0cm9qYWNrc29udmlsbGU=

[Ocklawaha]

My point is the small relative investment in these technologies would give a far greater return on the dollar than the other investments cited.  And, they could be implemented within months, not years or decades.

This can be done with or without the IPhone App. There are a number of systems available off the shelf such as "NEXTBUS" or "GOOGLEBUS" that plot the arrival and departure of each transit vehicle. It could be done tomorrow but I suspect the JTA IT cops are afraid of compromising their "system security" in letting the public access their data base.  I recently asked if they would set up a portal where the public could submit photos for their "album" pages as most transit systems do.  Got a call yesterday that WAY NO! We couldn't possibly allow the public to access our "system".  Kind of makes one wonder what the hell they are hiding.

I do believe that the $ky-high-way, in particular, does actually run off more people than it attracts, even if expanded as some advocate.  It just isn't capable of meeting commuter expectations and needs.

The Skyway is sailing along above the grid, making it an ideal connector for a congested urban area, or one such as the Southbank, without access to or from the South. It could be clean, it can be very efficient, it should be frequent and at $20-30 million a mile to expand, reasonably economical to expand. Elevation does not detract from ridership in all but extreme cases and with the Skyway, elevation is it's trump card to access points beyond the railroad crossings, rivers, boulevards or retention ponds that other modes would struggle with. It doesn't have to be a massive system to serve the urban core and encourage growth but as long as it goes from no where, to no place, and passes nothing on the way, it won't work.

I suspect the BRT really won't make a difference one way or the other thus giving little to negative return on investment.

BRT would make a huge change in ridership over what we have today just by closing headways and making the system convenient.  Trouble with Jacksonville is, we build some limited BRT, cut those headways and see the service start to surge, then cut the budget and destroy all of the good accomplished.  We either ARE a real city, or we are NOT a real city with all of the accessories. Like the Skyway, we can't be both of nothing.

Now, knowing when exactly your bus is about to arrive (or, if it is EVER going to arrive!) is a great confidence builder for riders looking for reliability and predictability and would greatly encourage repeat business.  Nothing is worse than waiting without knowing.

I doubt JTA knows when the bus will arrive and the city is too cheap to equip it with the bus trackers. Bottom line, with one bus per hour it's hardly a need. You must have service to track if you want to track service!

Likewise, paying without cash, and on a speedy basis, significantly creates convenience to riders and supports greater impulse ridership.  It's the same motivaton for businesses to take credit cards even though the processing fees are close to extortion for them.[/b]

Again, done all over the country and more and more systems going fare free or finding the funding for extreme fair reductions. It will happen here as soon as somebody needs a new Quarter Horse for the farm down in Ocala.


OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

I rode the Blue line into the city from Wicker Park three days last week and it was packed but easy at Rush hour. The videos seem to be coming in from the Forrest Park side. Interestingly the Blue line is an elevated train most of the way but as it passes through downtown and the loop it is a subway.