City imposing low-voltage permit fees

[fieldafm]

Via Daily Record

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530877

A little-known fee that quietly received City Council approval Tuesday will add to the cost of installing many things most folks likely take for granted.

Contractors installing what the City considers low-voltage electrical work â€" 77 volts or less â€" are required to obtain a permit for that work.

Tom Goldsbury, chief of the City’s Building Inspection Division, estimated the fees will generate about $20,000 annually, but stressed that’s a rough estimate.

The permits apply to several areas including security alarm systems, central vacuum systems, irrigation systems, low-voltage lighting and even stereo/surround sound systems. That permit is also required of contractors installing satellite TV systems, something that doesn’t sit well with that industry. In a March 30 letter to Goldsbury that was copied to the mayor’s office and other City officials, a representative of two national satellite TV providers said the permits are illegal under a Federal Communications Commission rule.

“We represent DISH Network and DIRECTV, the two national satellite television providers, and the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association, the national trade association for the satellite broadcast industry and herein express the objections of our clients to this permit requirement as it pertains to the installation of satellite dish antennas,” said the representative.

The representative said satellite dishes are exempt under the FCC ruling for several reasons including cost and the potential for the permit to delay satellite dish installation. They cited Florida Statute 553.80(3) and Florida Building Code 102.2.5.

“Any action by the City of Jacksonville, as it relates to the installation of satellite antennas, should be to explicitly exempt such installations from a permit requirement,” the letter to Goldsbury states. “If the City of Jacksonville were to apply this permit requirement to satellite antenna installations, it would be in direct violation of federal law. The Federal Communications Commission has expressly prohibited local municipalities from enacting any law, regulation, or restriction that ‘unreasonably increases the cost of installation, maintenance or use’ of a satellite TV antenna.”

Goldsbury said the City has started collecting the fees. However, anyone who already has a satellite dish, irrigation system or any other system within the legislation is “grandfathered” and won’t be affected. Only permits for new work will be required.

Goldsbury also disagrees with the assertion the fee is illegal. In a March 24 bulletin to all permit applicants, Goldsbury cited a statement from the Department of Community Affairs that he says confirms the requirement to permit low-voltage work.

“That type of work always required a license, but not a permit,” said Goldsbury, adding it has been several years since the City raised some of its permit fees and touted the current fees as some of the lowest in the state.

Goldsbury said the contractor doing the work will be required to obtain the permit. That cost may or may not be passed on to the customer. He said the legislation also affects Comcast â€" the only cable TV provider in Jacksonville.
“The satellite dish networks believe they have a federal law that exempts them,” he said.

The representative of the satellite networks said they believe the law is on the side of the satellite industry and cited the Over-the-Air Reception Devices rule (OTARD).

“The $30 cost for miscellaneous residential electrical permits violates OTARD by unreasonably increasing the cost of satellite antenna installation,” the representative continued in the letter to the City. “If the City of Jacksonville attempts to apply this permit requirement to satellite installations in violation of OTARD, we will have no choice but to initiate legal proceedings to challenge this enforcement. Upon doing so, the City of Jacksonville will be forced to suspend all attempts to enforce the permit requirement pending the resolution of the dispute. Moreover, the City of Jacksonville will have the burden of demonstrating that its permit complies with federal law â€" which as I have demonstrated above, it cannot do.”

Goldsbury disagrees with that assessment, also.

“To me, it’s not an unreasonable cost,” he said, adding the permits can be obtained on-line in less than a day.

[buckethead]

Chedda comin'!

[Overstreet]

They forgot phone systems. I'd like to be able to catch the yahoo phone installer that instead of running the lines in the raceways takes a hammer and makes a jagged hole in the fire wall to run his little wire.

I' wager that they aren't going to inspect many of these and permits will be in the $10 to $20 ramge.

[Sportmotor]

Chedda comin'!

To say the least yea

[buckethead]

They forgot phone systems. I'd like to be able to catch the yahoo phone installer that instead of running the lines in the raceways takes a hammer and makes a jagged hole in the fire wall to run his little wire.

I' wager that they aren't going to inspect many of these and permits will be in the $10 to $20 ramge.

I'm not sure most are gonna pick up on that, Overstreet.

The firewall he mentions is a wall, usually a double layer of finished sheetrock (somtimes other materials), then a void of 1" then another double layer of sheetrock, between two units of a dwelling to prevent the spread of fire.

Knocking a hole in it eliminates (reduces at best) that failsafe. It's a pretty big deal. It should not be done, but if it is, firecaulk should be used. (Still not to code: The wires can still burn into the other unit creating a channel for fire to exploit)

[JaxNative68]

they also currently require that the people installing the low voltage systems to be licensed the same as your standard electrician.  they do not currently enforce this in Jacksonville, once they do, this will take the majority of the companies presently installing these system unqualified until they have the proper electrician licensure. 

[urbanlibertarian]

^^ I learned about this from a guy who does home theatres, etc.  He had just gotten his electrician license and had seen a big jump in business that his competition isn't yet "qualified" to do now.  Even though he's currently benefiting from the situation he agreed it was total BS.

[dooley]

I install residential alarms and we had to start getting permits this past week, $5 a job.

[CS Foltz]

Well gee fella's..............City has to make a buck to make up for that short fall! Bad enough they use the ole line "lowest fee's in the state" and "Fee for permits has not been raised in years"! I don't know about you guys but I am getting sick and tired of being "FEE'd" everytime I turn around! I can see it coming..............if you use your left hand to wipe, fee! Fee's just a tool for the City to charge for just about anything they wish and it circumvents voter approval............yes there are some taxes we do get to vote on.......BJP was last one!

[Dog Walker]

Good grief!  If it's low voltage, do it yourself.  Home Depot has the books, the tools and the parts.  It's really very easy and you aren't going to burn the house down if you do it wrong.

[JaxNative68]

+1

[CS Foltz]

Ditto..........fellow posters! The day this City requires a permit for me to put in my own low voltage system is the day that I move out of town! This is starting to get ridiculous! Those silly suckers are going to try and Fee us to death ............you wait and see because I see it coming!

[ChriswUfGator]

This is hilarious...

So they MAYBE will collect $20k/yr in fees off this, and they're going to pay $100k fighting when DirecTV and Dish Network sue. Makes sense to me!

[buckethead]

Sure it does... If you're the hired gun for the city.

[urbanlibertarian]

Can someone explain to me how creating new permitting and licensing requirements helps small local businesses make it through this recession or grow?  Sounds like exactly the wrong thing for COJ to be doing.