Jacksonville: The Next Detroit?

[Metro Jacksonville]

Jacksonville: The Next Detroit?



What a shocking statistic to have learned recently while New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg was in town as part of his national convention on curbing violent crime and reducing illegal guns. Here it is:  Jacksonville has only 10% of the population of NYC, yet experiences 25% of their murders!  Wow.  It's no wonder that Sheriff John Rutherford recently indicated the city was teetering on the brink of lawlessness, stating  If we don't turn this thing around, we could be the next Detroit.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/734

[second_pancake]

Wholly crap!  Those statistics are truly frightening

[Pavers]

A few thoughts for the peanut gallery:

1.) Some interesting data:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

2.) A re-direction of police resources from low to high-crime areas sounds great at the surface, but actual implementation is quite a challenge.  I think most would be in favor of shifting resources from low-crime  to high-crime zipcodes, for example - provided that the resources being shifted aren't from ***THEIR *** zip code!

3.)  New York's mayor gets to choose their police commissioner.  Our mayor doesn't.  New York's mayor gets to choose their schools CEO.  Our mayor doesn't.  That's a big big big constraint on our mayor's (whether it's Peyton today, Delaney yesterday or tomorrow) ability to be a true force for change in either of these large institutions.  These powers are intentionally separated and all the mayor can do (I beleive) is simply determine the funding level for the JSO - and that's about it, besides coordinating other programs that complement law enforcement.

[fightingosprey07]

In my opinion, the only way we can prevent crime is to provide better education and job opportunities for people. More police officers aren't going to prevent crime if people are living in poverty and don't see a better way out than to steal and sell drugs.

[second_pancake]

In my opinion, the only way we can prevent crime is to provide better education and job opportunities for people. More police officers aren't going to prevent crime if people are living in poverty and don't see a better way out than to steal and sell drugs.

Ok, are you freaking KIDDING me?  Jacksonville has been notorious for funneling money into the public education system.  If the crooks WANT education, it's there.  The fact of the matter is, the people comitting the crimes don't give a damn about learning anything but how to get away with more crime and 'earn' money without doing any actual work.  It's not the poverty that causes these people to be this way, it's the people that are this way that cause the poverty.

Just because you're poor doesn't mean you have to live in filfth, kill people and rob and rape others.  It's not that these people don't know any better, it's that they enjoy being who they are and they have a strong sense of resentment towards those who want something better for themselves.  If they were to get their wish and have the money they think they're entitled to, they would be nothing more than a 50-Cent or Tupac, engaged in the same tribal warfare and thoughtless killing on a grander and more publicized scale....and have a record deal.

[Joe]

^ I generally agree w/ second_pancake

Also, the comparison between Jax and Detroit is somewhat valid for murder rate, but that's about it. The root cause of Detroit's major woes is that it's a dying city that is scaring away productive memebers of society with a high tax burden. Say what you will about Jax, but it still has high growth, and very reasonable taxes relative to much of the rest of the country.

[jmccharen]

In Riverside a few different groups of neighbors have formed crime watch groups, and we're hoping this is a good way to reduce serious crime in the long-run. The group closest to RADO's office, which we help organize, meets tonight at 6:30pm at 881 Stockton Street.

Feel free to email or call for more information: 381.0950; jmccharen at radocdc dot org

[Ocklawaha]

This is NOT TO SUGGEST we have nothing to work on, we could make our city even better. But true to form, we find a single problem area and blow it up so big it makes international headlines. Why do we keep shooting ourselves in the foot (pun intended). Here are just a couple of off the wall samples I worked on this morning. This uses the Uniform Crime Index of crimes per 100,000 people as a measure. Let me tell you, if you think we look bad then you haven't seen Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Nashville, Washington or Detroit... DETROIT? God all mighty as my witness, you need a jewelers loop to find our numbers next to theirs!





Ocklawaha

[walter]

here's a good site to compare crime stats: http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm

We aren't going to become the next Detroit, but we do hold the crime capital trophy for the state.  If you got to FDLE and do the search for crime per capita we are well above Miami-Dade, Orange, Hillsborough, Palm Beach, Pinellas and all those counties have higher populations than we do.  That is not a very glowing endorsement of our Sheriff.  And our stats are in light of the recent revelation that his budget has increased over 100 million dollars in just five years http://www.news4jax.com/news/15307228/detail.html

Whats the solution?  I think perhaps some pro-active policing as opposed to re-active policing.  I happen to live in a zip that is considered "high crime"  do I ever see JSO?  rarely.  Out of their car?  only when they are setting up crime tape. 

[jaxlore]

i with fightingosprey07 on this. You can bring the crime rate down with enforcement, but the only way to keep it down is to change the neighborhoods through better education, better role models, better job opportunities.  If a kid gets railroaded through high school and gets out barely being able to read, has no one to tell him there are opportunities out there for them, what do you expect them to do. I do think the Mayors reading program is one that will pay off, but in reality the school systems are the ones who are not doing the job. Guidance counselor's at high schools are a joke. If a kid is not going to college then we should have job counselors to help them become productive members of society. Kids spend more time worrying about the clothes they where then what they can do in the future. I could go on for hours about this. But as a society we need to start caring more about people and less about material b$.

[Lunican]

Fort Lauderdale and Daytona have a large number of tourists passing through every year that are not included in the population numbers. This may skew their crime ratios... at least if I were mayor of Daytona that's what I'd say.

[Johnny]

If education was the problem, every city would have as much or more. We have several high schools rated with the best of them, in fact a couple that are the best of them. The blame cannot be placed on schools, it's the parenting and the nonchalance of the local leaders. Everyone from the mayor to city council. When you have politicians not wanting a children's program in your area because it's a white guy working on it, you have some serious issues as a community.

[DamonNoisette]

Stephen, would you care to elaborate on the professional criminals in Springfield? Are we talking a burglary crew or something more of the white-collar variety?

[reednavy]

I don't think we'll get as bad as Detroit, maybe New Orleans, but not Detroit. Michigan's whole economy is slumping because of Detroit, and it is proven.

[second_pancake]

i with fightingosprey07 on this. You can bring the crime rate down with enforcement, but the only way to keep it down is to change the neighborhoods through better education, better role models, better job opportunities.  If a kid gets railroaded through high school and gets out barely being able to read, has no one to tell him there are opportunities out there for them, what do you expect them to do. I do think the Mayors reading program is one that will pay off, but in reality the school systems are the ones who are not doing the job. Guidance counselor's at high schools are a joke. If a kid is not going to college then we should have job counselors to help them become productive members of society. Kids spend more time worrying about the clothes they where then what they can do in the future. I could go on for hours about this. But as a society we need to start caring more about people and less about material b$.

Well, you got the last part of your comment right.  But, how is providing greater education through schools going to prevent them from caring about clothes?  It won't. In fact, putting all those kids together in one place where there are cliques and various social groups, only exaserbates the appearence issue.  Kids act out and do things, sometimes illegal things, to either get attention or to fit into a certain group they want to be a part of.  You can't "teach" this behavior out of them.  They're kids, more importantly, teenagers, and that's just what they do.  It's the parents responsibility to manage just how far their need to be a part of a social group, or the need to express themselves is taken.

Regarding job counselors, school is there to give kids the tools they need...basic tools, to survive.  It's not there to teach them a trade or provide an apprenticeship.  That's what college and specialty schools, that are funded privately, not by taxpayers, are for.  You are not, nor should you ever be, guaranteed a job or job placement out of highschool.  You should now have the tools to fend for yourself, so do it.  Finding a job and creating a life requires, among other things, thought and ambition...a desire to do something and not rely on others to provide things to or for you.  When you are taught a sense of entitlement, you will never work to do anything with your life and will only feel as if others have let you down which will create resentment and hatred, thus leading to a life of crime, or a life filled with addictions.

Let me ask you this, if YOU had job placement and job education provided to you in your school and were provided a place to work right out of highschool, do you think you would feel good about yourself today?  Do you think you'd be more successful, equally successful, or less?  Would you look to others to continue to 'help' you along your life's journey, or would you work hard to make it on your own?