US military kills Iraqis video

[buckethead]

A reasonable assessment.^

Still, I offer the benefit of any doubt to our sons in harm's way. Does anyone (other than Bos) believe that this was an intentional, premeditated act of murder?

As I see it, they saw what they truly believed to be an RPG launcher aimed directly  at them. From that point on, they were taking no chances that another person would pick it up and fire it at them.

I don't care who you voted for in 2000. WE sent our boys over there. Did Bush? Did Congress? Yes we did!

This will not go well for any hopes of a good relationship with the Iraqi people. It is time to bring my sons home.

[reednavy]

http://www.youtube.com/v/HegX-_zET5Y
The problem with being 20 something is that you are usually too young and ignorant of the world around you to effectively comment on exactly what 'agenda' they are seeing.

Nice way to generalize a whole lotta people.

[reednavy]

Watch out, you'll be called a Nazi for supporting our troops!

[NotNow]

Sportmotors assessment is really pretty good.  I find many a young person wise beyond their years when they have had their own ass on the line.  Raindoggie, you are of course correct in stating the conventions, but the situation is rarely that clear when you have a couple of months of living in the sand, under fire for hours, crappy radio coms and people dressed as civilians driving Toyotas shooting at you.  Of course people can carry a rifle, but that act is ill advised in an active fire fight location, no matter what your intentions.  No American serviceman wants to hurt a non combatant and certainly doesn't want to hurt kids (they were not killed, by the way), but you have to protect yourself and the other American forces around you.  Aircraft such as was depicted in the video are lifesavers on the battlefield.  Countless Americans live today because of our tactical air power.  Contrary to what some here like to state (without experience or merit) those that serve for us do not turn into "beasts".  They fight for their friends and comrades in arms to the best of their ability.  Trading bullets with others will never be a completely sterile, clean mistake free experience.  It will always be something done to the best of the training and ability of those involved.  Armchair soldiers don't realize that.

[Bostech]

Like I said ,these kind of "mistakes" happen EVERY MONTH.
They are not mistakes but clear message by US army they will KILL ANYTHING THAT MOVES.
They have been killing like this in Afghanistan,Iraq,Serbia,Bosnia...you name it.
when they bombed Serbia they bombed Chinese embassy by "mistake",they bombed Serbian TV by "mistake" killing journalists,they bombed bridges and civilian trains by "mistake",they bombed civilian areas by "mistake",in Afghanistan they bombed weeding by "mistake",in Iraq they shot people on street by "mistake".

Its not a mistake,those are messages to people who is BOSS and they will kill even innocent if it is in their interest.
Criminal act,crime against humanity.

Did we also forget USA is INVADING force in Iraq?
Shouldn't be there in first place.Those Iraqis have right to walk around their country and even carry gun if they want.Its their business.

By the way those soldiers should kill half Texans,because they are walking around with guns.

[Bostech]

Oh yeah,how about US army bombing "by mistake" Al-Jazeera offices in Kabul and Baghdad???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2001/nov/17/warinafghanistan2001.afghanistan

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/jaz-a09.shtml

and then bombing Serbian TV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_the_Radio_Television_of_Serbia_headquarters

then killing these journalists on video.


It was all "mistake".

[JC]

For my inaugural post I will start by quoting Major General Smedley Butler.

War Is A Racket
WAR is a racket. It always has been.
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one
international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the
losses in lives.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of
the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit
of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge
fortunes.

If you cant accept these words as truth, if your memory is so short that you cant recall the stated justification for US involvement and then the actual reasons for US involvement in most conflicts than all hope is lost for you.  

Someone above stated that 'no American soldier wants to kill non combatants.'  Are you sure about that?  Have you spoken to all service members?  Has it been so long that you have forgotten the Haditha massacre, where 15 out of 24 KIA were civilians, including women and children.  Just Google SSGT Frank Wuterich.  Check out the Mahmudiyah killings where the family of 14 year old Abeer Qassim Hamza was murdered before she was gang raped by US Marines who then shot her to death and burned her body.  These are just a few high profile incidents which have occurred in Iraq but there are many others that go unreported.

I mean hell, there are boatloads of soldiers who cant even control themselves enough to not force themselves on their fellow soldiers.  

There are more women serving in the military than ever before, and they're in dangerâ€"but not just from combat. Last year, nearly 1,400 women reported being assaulted and raped by their fellow soldiers, in some cases by their commanding officers. The shocking phenomenon is called military sexual trauma, or MST.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/421/video-seg1.html

[RainDoggie]

As I see it, they saw what they truly believed to be an RPG launcher aimed directly  at them. From that point on, they were taking no chances that another person would pick it up and fire it at them.

I think it's pretty clear from listening to the back-and-forth radio chatter that they did in fact believe they were under threat, but watching the video I honestly can't figure out how they came to such a conclusion.  And it still doesn't explain why they attacked the people who had stopped to help the wounded photographer. 

Raindoggie, you are of course correct in stating the conventions, but the situation is rarely that clear when you have a couple of months of living in the sand, under fire for hours, crappy radio coms and people dressed as civilians driving Toyotas shooting at you...

No American serviceman wants to hurt a non combatant and certainly doesn't want to hurt kids...

Contrary to what some here like to state (without experience or merit) those that serve for us do not turn into "beasts".

1) Absolutely you are right that the situation is rarely clear when trying to fight an insurgency.  It's made even worse by the fact that these soldiers rarely get more than 3-4 hours of sleep per day and they've probably already witnessed some pretty harrowing crap.  That's why I said that stuff like this is pretty much inevitable when you go to war which is why I believe we should avoid going to war unless absolutely necessary and try to avoid these sorts of prolonged occupations.

2) That's a nice thought but... I'll just refer you to JC above for a few examples.  I'll concede that most American servicemen don't want to hurt civilians however there are some that do.  The military can't weed out all the unhinged crazies in its ranks, especially when they're desperate for volunteers.

3) I'm not sure who said those who serve turn into beasts.  I made the statement that war tends to make otherwise decent people do some pretty awful things and I stand by that statement.  I'm not passing judgment, it's just an observation that the very nature of war requires soldiers to do things that would be considered reprehensible under any other context, sometimes just to survive.  Which brings me back to my first point about avoiding war in the first place.

[NotNow]

RainDoggie, sometimes war just comes to your door.  Someone has to stand and fight when the fighting needs to be done.  Someone has to do those "reprehensible" things.  Otherwise, "reprehensible" things will be done to you.  We have been some of the luckiest people in the world in that all of our wars for the past one hundred years have been fought "over there". 

I am not condoning criminal acts.  Those examples that were given resulted in criminal prosecution, as they should.  When I said no American serviceman wants to kill noncombatants I was talking about guys like you heard in the video.  I know it sounds bad to most people when they hear soldiers cheering after an enemy is killed, but that is the reality of it.  In combat, it is us versus them. Me and you trying to kill the guy that is over there trying to kill us. 

I think that you would find that most people who have put their own butts on the line in battle or on our own streets are the most peace loving of us all.  Those that have had to do "the hard work" or "reprehensible acts" know how awful humans can be to each other.  I have found that in general, they are the most gentle and involved among us.  They also know what kind of world we live in, and know the wolf is ALWAYS at the door, waiting for the opening.

[Captain Zissou]

Post one more NotNow, you're so very close to 1,000!!!

[Bostech]

Who are you fighting in Iraq???
Reason war doesn't come to your door is because US starts wars everywhere else except here.
Here in US government will quickly eliminate any militia or revolutionary movement while they support all sort of evil around world.
US literally gave Saddam Husein his power,without US he wouldn't last one week in power.

[Sportmotor]

the wolf is ALWAYS at the door, waiting for the opening.

unless you have a doggy door

[NotNow]