Floating Dock for RAM Hits Rough Waters in Finance

[ProjectMaximus]

First of all, a market research survey needs to be conducted that asks people who attend the market and own boats whether they would visit RAM in a boat. A question on the survey should also ask all attendees of RAM whether or not they would utilize the water taxi. Data should be presented to the council before any money is spent on a new dock.

From what I've seen with my near-virgin eyes, Id expect paying a consultant to conduct such a survey to cost nearly the same amount as just building the dock. And the consultant would surely then make sure that the results favored building the dock...so we'd have the same result for double the cost 

[ChriswUfGator]

Casual observations on how money should be utilized should not be taken into consideration when deciding on how to spend taxpayer money.

Yeah, god forbid, I mean really...you don't want to listen to those taxpayers when spending taxpayer money.

That would just be horrible! LMAO!

[ChriswUfGator]

using the taxpayers $ argument...there are many more people who attend RAM than would use the firehouse.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't support saving the firehouse more.

I was the biggest one arguing for the dock in here, but when someone brought up the fact that the money was enough to move the firehouse to safety, I immediately recognized that it is better spent on the firehouse. Once lost, that's gone forever. B&W Marine will still be more than happy to build us a dock a year or two from now, when the firehouse is already saved.

Seems like a no-brainer, even to a boater who'd like to have a public dock available in Riverside.

[Miss Fixit]

does anyone have the latest info on the status of the fire station?  If so, perhaps a new thread to raise awareness of that issue is appropriate

[strider]

The new dock at RAM will be a very cool addition to the river.  It must be looked at as just one small part of the goal of getting Jacksonville using it's greatest asset in a positive and public way.  The biggest risk to it being used is any rules or polices adopted by the city for its use.  Some of the other city owned docks are sitting under utilized due to city polices. We'll see what they do with this one.

Saving the fire station is a great goal, but as it is a commercial structure, I would think you need to have a specific use in mind, like Ock has suggested, to make it happen.

[hightowerlover]

to me this dock should be used for more than just saturdays for the RAM it could serve as a linkage for 5 points/Brooklyn to the core

[Joe]

The problem with the firehouse situation is that historic preservation is the primary reason to save it (a worthy goal, btw). Yet, according to established historic preservation guidelines, physically moving the structure is extremely undesirable and not recommended. So you have a classic Catch-22. The only way to preserve the building is to move it, but to move it undermines the value of preserving it. Jax has faced this problem with both the Merrill House and Brewster Hospital, and a lot of people even at the historical society questioned the value of moving these structures.

Anyway, regarding the dock: There's absolutely no need to study market demand for another public dock. The demand exists. The docks at the landing are swamped on weekends and during event.

[RiversideLoki]

The problem with the dock though, is I don't think that it will do one bit of good for businesses surrounding RAM (E.G. 5-Points businesses.) Because those people that boat up from, say, Julington creek, Doctors, or wherever aren't going to be venturing out past the arts market. They're going to go to RAM, maybe buy some crap, then go up to the landing to booze up or continue fishing.

While that may encourage people to go to the landing, I don't think this will spur any watershed change in the patronage of local businesses.

[blizz01]

But isn't there talk (or a plan) around getting RAM extended toward 5 Points or the park?  More specifically, making the area more walkable under the bridge on the opposite side of the street.  And then there's the possible extension of the Riverwalk at that location (one day?).  I suppose though, the other thing to consider is that Monday-Friday, that area is simply a parking lot.

[blizz01]

For it or against it (for now), I think that this was pushed through quicker than anything in recent memory.  On a positive note, maybe some folks can consider taking their boat to work now  ....

Design concept approved for new dock on Northbank Riverwalk

If you're a boater who likes to navigate the St. Johns River near Downtown, you're a step closer to having another location to tie up along the Northbank Riverwalk.
The Downtown Development Review Board of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission granted conceptual approval for a floating dock to be constructed neat the Fuller Warren Bridge. The project is consistent with the City's Downtown Action Plan, said JEDC Executive Director Ron Barton.
“We want to enhance marine linkages and better engage the boating community with Downtown. Having this dock will attract that community,” he said.
Barton told board members that the Riverside Arts Market near the dock’s location is “wildly successful” and attracts up to 20,000 people each Saturday.
Landscape architect Kevin White made the formal presentation on behalf of HDR Engineering. He said the dock will be 200 feet long with a gangway consistent with other floating docks in use Downtown.
When asked if the dock would be used only on Saturdays when the market is operating, he replied that the area under the ramp to the bridge, which is close to the Riverside, Avondale and Ortega neighborhoods, is “used as a park area.”
It was also noted use of the dock by boaters will conform with existing regulations governing other Downtown docks, including no use at night between sundown and sunup and no water supply or electricity will be available.
In addition to its proximity to the market, the location also was chosen because it is adjacent to Lender Processing Services on the Fidelity Campus. Private security is on the property around the clock and Barton said the service would be able to “keep an eye on the dock and let us know” if police or marine patrol officers needed to respond to any situations.
Part of the approved concept is enhanced signage warning boaters of danger to manatees. That also will educate children who attend the market about the marine mammals.
White said that there will be 11 to 13 feet of water depth on the outside docking area and seven to eight feet on the inside. The dock is designed for up to 10 20-foot vessels to tie up simultaneously. Because of its length, it does not require a submerged lands lease from the state.
The dock has already been approved by the Jacksonville Waterways Commission and City Council passed an ordinance Tuesday to fund the $396,000 project with an appropriation from the Northbank Tax Increment District Fund.
DDRB also granted an extension of final approval to February 2011 for the Southshore Marina and Riverwalk project for a public marina on the Southbank at the Aetna Building.
The board gave the project the green light in February 2008, said attorney John Campbell with Pappas Metcalf Jenks & Miller. The project has not begun because of market and economic conditions.
He was asked when he thinks the project might be started. “We’re dealing with economic reality and it’s a financing issue. I don’t have an answer to that question,” he said.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530602

[grimss]

The problem with the dock though, is I don't think that it will do one bit of good for businesses surrounding RAM (E.G. 5-Points businesses.) Because those people that boat up from, say, Julington creek, Doctors, or wherever aren't going to be venturing out past the arts market. They're going to go to RAM, maybe buy some crap, then go up to the landing to booze up or continue fishing.

While that may encourage people to go to the landing, I don't think this will spur any watershed change in the patronage of local businesses.

One thing that RAP is trying to do is leverage RAM's success to draw people deeper into the district.  A downloadable MP3 audio walking tour of the St. Johns Historic Quarter (starting from RAM) is soon to be completed, and then a walking tour reconstruction of the "Lost Row" is next.  A smart phone application that allows you to point your phone at various prospects in Riverside and Memorial Parks and see vintage photos of the same vista, as well as detailed content, will (hopefully) be available by May. Editorial content is being prepared that will showcase the neighborhood outside RAM, as are improvements to the RAP booth at RAM, which will reflect not just the neighborhood's history and architecture, but also its rich cultural, entertainment and dining options.

None of this means the dock at RAM will immediately become a destination on days other than Saturday, but RAP is aware of the opportunity to create new reasons to come here. A really cool "Neighborhood As Art" exhibit at The Cummer launching in June of next year should also help drive interest.

Suggestions for other creative endeavors to bring people to this urban core dock are welcome.

[stjr]

^So, grimss, did RAP discuss the fire station's preservation and whether that should take precedence over the dock?  Is RAP doing anything to support the fire station's preservation?

[grimss]

Yes, RAP has been active behind the scenes in trying to work out some sort of solution with council members, surrounding landowners, and an interested party in Fernandina (who wants to headquarter his contracting business at the station). It has also promoted the Save Old Firehouse #5 effort on both its home page and Facebook pages. Unfortunately, the Fire Station is located just outside the RA historic district boundaries, so some of RAP's usual arguments about ordinance-protected structures don't prevail in this instance.

Personally, I think the mood among people in the know (which isn't really me, at least in terms of the latest info) is that the city just isn't willing to wage the preservation fight on this one. They just don't equate the $ to build the dock with $ that could spent on saving the Fire House. Definitely regrettable.

[stjr]

Given RAM's apparent political clout, I wonder, if they had requested the $400K to renovate the fire station as their permanent offices or in some other RAM supporting role, if the priorities would have been different.  It would be a nice gesture and possibly more beneficial for RAM's long term interests for RAM leadership to consider this.  AS already mentioned, they could always work on the dock later.

[Ocklawaha]

This is messed up thinking on the part of the COJ. The park needs access and access equals transportation, transportation has it's own bucket of funds which grants could be requested for. JTA has a water taxi plan, and it's not hard to see how this, along with a stop at Baptist Medical Center, and at the foot of both Margaret Street, and Landon Avenue, would impliment both the new services as well as provide the needed space for boater access to RAM, as well as to 5-POINTS and SAN MARCO. Business revenues would jump up on the weekend and the site once discovered by the power boat and fishing magazines and shows, could become a national model.

The Firehouse is another project. While it COULD BE rolled into the Skyway with very little effort, AND FUNDED, it could also go the historical grant route. Regardless of what we think about the sanctity of the ground it sits on, a big dog wants that ground for their own purposes, and we agreed to it through representation. Can't go back on that deal and blacken our relocation eye with other companies. So move the damn building and let's do something positive with it. Why not under the bridge at RAM? Why not a Skyway TOD terminal? Why not a museum? Restaurant? Studio? Gallery? Crafts Mall? Just why the hell NOT?? (toss in the accent of Mac over at SPAR) Damn Jacksonville! Just DAMN!


OCKLAWAHA