Floating Dock for RAM Hits Rough Waters in Finance

[stjr]

I'm kinda surprised by adversity towards the RAM water access improvement... $400K... is it really that much?

It is when your "broke" and have hundreds of demands for the money that also make good cases for being prioritized and may have been in the hopper long before RAM came to be.

...wouldn't "RAM, the River Walk, the Cummer, 5 Points,and Riverside, in general" also benefit from recreational boat traffic?

Maybe, but enough to create an economic benefit to offset the costs?  Not so sure.  How many boats are we really talking about and how many times will the slips actually be used aside from weekends with near perfect weather?  Another 100 visitors to RAM when it gets 10,000 to 20,000 isn't going to make a noticable impact.

[Shwaz]

It is when your "broke" and have hundreds of demands for the money that also make good cases for being prioritized and may have been in the hopper long before RAM came to be.

These funds are available. They were set aside from tax revenue generated from business in the immediate area... and again it's not that much money... not anything remotely near the amount to fix the entire city budget.

Maybe, but enough to create an economic benefit to offset the costs?  Not so sure.  How many boats are we really talking about and how many times will the slips actually be used aside from weekends with near perfect weather?  Another 100 visitors to RAM when it gets 10,000 to 20,000 isn't going to make a noticable impact.

Again the cost was offset when the city collected money to improve the immediate area.

Ask the Landing if they benefit from boater traffic.

[stjr]

Shwaz, by definition, funds can't be spent if they are not "available".  That isn't the issue.  It's what to spend them on!

From my observation, boats at the Landing are more eye candy for the landlubbers than business builders for the Landing.  Sure, it's nice to get a little more business here and there, but I'm sure it's not enough to make or break anyone at the Landing.

[Shwaz]

STJR incorrect  THE FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530477

While the City will build and pay for the dock, Barton explained the money isn’t coming out of the general fund. Instead, funds from the Downtown Tax Increment District will be used.

“This is a revenue stream paid into by Downtown property owners to be invested back into Downtown,” he said. “It’s Downtown-centric, Downtown-paid and the funds go back to Downtown.”

[stjr]

^Shwaz, you misread my post.  Read it again. 

[luis_D]

Casual observations on how money should be utilized should not be taken into consideration when deciding on how to spend taxpayer money.

I think noticing what boat traffic does for businesses at The Landing is a great starting point but from that people need to generate data that verifies/refutes the observation. RAM has an incredible group of volunteers that help Tony pull it off and my hat goes off to them.

I'd love to see boat traffic come to Riverside if it could benefit the community but I would be hard pressed to spend money on the project if I wasn't certain it was going to generate adequate foot traffic and thus dollars for local businesses. 

To me, it doesn't matter where the cash comes from.

If the expenditure doesn't yield results no one wins

[tufsu1]

and it is important to note that Tax Increment Funds are typically used for capital projects, not the operating budget (where the City has an pending deficit).

[thelakelander]

I'm a fan of extending the water taxi's service to RAM but the question of if this is the best use of the $400k is valid.  For example, would it be better to invest the money on smart meters or improving the lighting on a few streets within the heart of DT?  Does the city have a priority list for capital improvements within downtown's boundaries?  If so, where does this fit on that list and the overall visioning for the area?  If there is no priority list for the use of these funds, why not?

[Noone]

The timing for the floating dock at RAM couldn't be better for the city of Jacksonville. I support it and am encouraged by the questions being asked by Cresimbeni and Yarborough. These common sense questions will ultimately save us the taxpayers money by understanding the costs. Imagine any savings being transferred to the 680' Landmar pier.

I attended Waterways and Rules where this legislation was discussed. The economic impact for Downtown and the region will be huge in my opinion.

I would hope that as this project moves forward that the members of this forum will focus on a floating dock at the 680' Public pier at the former Landmar site. That's in District 7 and councilman Gaffney is on board to have one at that location. There was a floating dock there during Super Bowl XXXIX.


Both additional waterway access points will benefit the entire downtown. The Springfield group should be excited about this additional opportunity with the potential Landmar pier and its proximity to Hogans Creek.

There is so much more. I hope the entire council supports the floating dock at RAM. The big story is what is the open competitive bid process and the taxpayer knowing what a real cost is to this tangible asset for the people of Jacksonville.

Again pats on the back to Cresimbeni and Yarborough whose questions will ultimately get us a better product.

[grimss]

Without debate, the City Council voted last night -- I believe it was 14 to 3 -- to pay for the dock at RAM. It still must get all of the final river permits.

[stjr]

Not convinced this will be the economic boon painted versus its cost but, more importantly, using the $$$ to save the Riverside Avenue fire station should have been covered first.

[tufsu1]

using the taxpayers $ argument...there are many more people who attend RAM than would use the firehouse.

[luis_D]

How many more?

[Charles Hunter]

Another way to look at it, if the fire house isn't saved now, it is gone forever; if the floating dock isn't built now, it can be built later - maybe next year - and RAM won't be any the worse.

[Ocklawaha]

Wonder if any of our artistic types... JASON? LAKE? STEPHENDARE? Could move that building across the street and make it the Brooklyn Skyway Terminal in a rendering? It would be freaking awesome to see JTA do something that progressive and just think of the possible mixed uses... Station + news stand + museum + art studio + coffee Shop + "The 3 Alarms Club" + + + + ??

If we do this with the old fire station, move it across the street on the southwest corner of Riverside and Forest, landscape the lot and plan for a couple of bus lanes. Remodel the inside to accommodate several businesses, and add the Skyway Platforms overhead. If this was to fly, it would bode well for other locations such as the Skyway + Annie Lytle.

Let's not just save it, let's give her another 100 years of purpose, all it takes is a little Imagineering!


OCKLAWAHA