Is Springfield Ready for a Car Wash?

[Lunican]

Louise actually asked me for Stephens phone number because she "would love to speak with him". I ignored her ridiculous request. No one on the MJ board called him, but obviously word travels fast with the internet and all.

In fact, the whole city knows about it now.

[sheclown]

Funny, the only place I have seen you is blogging at City Hall or sucking up the free WI-FI at Three Layers.

Let's see, in the past couple of weeks, I've seen Stephen walk down Main Street with Council Members (actually brought Glorious Johnson to the thrift store -- she liked it btw, said she loves thrift stores and there are really cool ones in Harlem.)  He's interview the mayor, the head of the city's general counsel, contacted artists, attended a homeless coalition meeting, walked Hogan's Creek, discovered buried graveyards...just to name a few.

geez.

[Springfield Girl]

Actually, I try to always give people the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that someone was drunk because they were upset. I surely wouldn't take the excited words of teenagers as the gospel. I am very passionate and tend to get a little excited myself so I can relate. When were these folks supposed to get drunk? The story that has been relayed was that they showed up to the WC meeting but were denied entrance. They then retired to Three Layers where they allegedly confronted the MJ crew. So when did this drinking occur. I wasn't there so I'm not sure who was included in this group but if it's the people I assume, I definitely question the drunken accusation. I have been involved in many a heated discussion but that doesn't equal being drunk. I'm glad I wasn't there because I have a lot of pent up frustration over many of the out of context posts and ridiculous threads that I may have been guilty of a little bad behavior myself. Never a good thing but understandable when people feel they have been treated unfairly repeatedly. I usually listen to both sides and figure the real truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[thelakelander]

LOL, Springfield Girl, you can attempt to spin this in a positive way for that wild group but its not going down like that.  This belligerent behavior was witnessed by several people at two different locations within an hour of each other.  If you want to blame MJ for them not being about to control themselves, then so be it.  However, that doesn't change the fact that the police were called to the Women's Club and that their meeting had to be shut down because of this group.

I wasn't at the Women's Club but based on the accounts of several people who have been sending PMs, text messages, emails and myself being at Three Layers, I believe you are spinning a losing battle on this one. There was a wine bar/coffeehouse full of people and a club (two different locations) reporting the same belligerent behavior.  Where there's smoke, there's fire.

As for the drunk issue, being in a wine bar with some acting weird, out of day time character and holding beverages would give others that impression.  However, without a breathalyzer test I would not know for sure.  Instead words like acting in a deranged, demented, unusual or bizarre manner would be a more accurate description. IMO, drunk would be a term that would give someone the benefit of the doubt since it was a wine bar and all.  In any event, this group has already lost its credibility and if they don't change the way they carry themselves and treat others, things will get worse for them.

With that said, this is the thread about the car wash.  Let's get it back and keep it on topic.  If someone has an issue with the events of Tuesday night, here is a link to the correct thread for that nonsense: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7632.msg139309/topicseen.html#new

Any additional out of subject post in this thread will be subject to deletion.  Thanks for your cooperation.

[ChriswUfGator]

My apologies for not getting to this sooner, I have been pretty busy the past few days.

I did no such thing.

Yes you did. So you’re saying you aren’t one of the supporters of the current zoning appeal?

It’s a “yes” or “no” answer…

Were you here at that time Chris?

Yup. I’ve been here a decade, and my property ownership in Springfield pre-dated yours.

I was, the place looked like crap and still does. The pictures have been posted of the current state.

With all due respect much of Springfield looks like crap, especially the commercial properties. Silas Jones is actually trying to fix the place up and get it going, and you people are fighting him tooth and nail. And your reason for not wanting him to fix a place up and open a business is, apparently, that it looks like crap? You don’t think your preventing him from opening has anything to do with that?

So if you won't allow anyone to fix anything up without harassing and sandbagging them, then how exactly do you expect these commercial properties to ever become viable again? Or is it that you just want to pick and choose who gets allowed to open what? I suspect the latter.

Again, it seems like we're back to the cyclical logic of arguing that simply because it's been closed, it shouldn't be allowed to be open. I find that appalling, when your group is the REASON it's not already open. That is fallacious logic.

My posts are directed at the failed investors and businessmen and those in the poverty business who like to post negative things about the neighborhood because of sour grapes.

Hmmm...

So I'm guessing I must be the "failed investor," Stephen must be the "failed businessman," and Joe and Gloria must be in the "poverty business." Or maybe I'm in the latter category, who knows. Whichever way, let's address this, shall we?

A: I got out of real estate to go back to school and become a lawyer. In the time since I left that business, I have earned three degrees including my J.D., while property values have collapsed like an overcooked soufflé. So now I'm a failure, according to some silly real estate agent? Don’t you have some cookies to go bake for an open house or something?

B: Stephen's lease got terminated because his landlord sold the building out from under him to the Dalton Agency, and he got a nice check for his troubles. His business didn't fail, he just lost his space when the landlord sold the building. And you’re actually posting on another business in which he has a part interest as we speak, to tell him what a failed businessman he is? You SPARbarians never do seem to understand the value of irony.

C: Sorry you view helping those in need as being the "poverty business". Has it never dawned on you that people may have motivations other than money for doing something? The people you are referring to are compelled by motives other than money, and feel they are doing good through their actions. I happen to agree with them. I'm sorry that your Dickensian world view leaves no room for this, and if that is reflective of your normal level of cynicism then your life must not be a very happy place.

They try to keep Springfield down through their words and actions because of some perceived past slights or the preservation of their business model which doesn't mesh with revitalization.

There is no “perceived” anything. Your wretched little group has made life miserable for countless investors and business owners who didn’t properly kiss your backsides before entering the neighborhood. SPAR’s bogus C.A.R.E. complaint call-in campaigns are legendary, and meanwhile your E.D. got caught red-handed trying to make it easier to demolish historic properties. Meanwhile, your group has supported a series of spectacular flops, e.g. Craig Van Horn.

In my view, the main thing keeping Springfield down has actually been SPAR. Your little group has opposed multiple different attempts to open new businesses in the neighborhood, and has managed to be the least effective historic preservation group in history. Literally 1/3'rd of the neighborhood has been demolished, and no, I don’t consider the 60 or so SRG houses to be any real replacement for what has been lost. Your group has utterly failed in its mandate, has actively opposed those engaged in trying to open new businesses, and has generally set the place back light-years.

cool businesses make for a good neighborhood

And why are you opposing the car wash again?

The few posters I'm speaking about love to say that SPAR does not speak for the neighborhood

That’s because SPAR in fact does not speak for the neighborhood. In a neighborhood of 3,000 residents, your group claims a membership of less than 150, and we have only been able to actually verify 39 out of the claimed <150. So in what possible sense do you somehow represent the neighborhood?

ROFL, I have more people over for house parties.

No matter how badly a few try to keep the neighborhood down to benefit their business model or satisfy their revenge it ain't gonna happen.

Nobody is fighting against Springfield, and nobody is trying to keep Springfield down. It’s SPAR and its misbehaved members that everyone has a problem with. Let’s not confuse the issues.

Drive around, the neighborhood is getting better day by day.

Yes, despite your best efforts, the place has actually improved. But if anyone really wants to see just how effective SPAR has been, how about driving around and counting up all the vacant lots?

The hundreds of great neighbors who don't post, let alone read this site are  happily enjoying the progress in Springfield and quite confident in the future. The train has left the station!

I agree, nobody is arguing that Springfield has made progress. It’s the efforts to halt portions of that progress that I don’t understand. To wit; why oppose the car wash?

[Springfield Girl]

For the same reason RAP opposed a car wash in their district and the same reason the zoning department, Historic Planning Staff and Commision oppose the exception.

[ChriswUfGator]

For the same reason RAP opposed a car wash in their district and the same reason the zoning department, Historic Planning Staff and Commision oppose the exception.

I guess you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Only thing to do now is wait and see what happens with the appeal I guess.

[Springfield Girl]

So SPAR member complaints caused RAP to oppose a car wash in their district?

[thelakelander]

Even though I don't agree with the position against the car wash, the opposition does have a right to oppose.  By the same token, those in favor have every right to do what they can to make sure things end up on the side of another vacant Main Street lot becoming productive.  So lets see this thing run its course, keep everything out in the open, live blog the actual appeal and let the chips fall where they may.  My guess is that this project won't be the last to go through this issue.  However, if there is a serious attempt to keep all acts out in the open and exposed, parties who tend to do shady things will eventually scurry like cockroaches when the lights come on.  On the other hand, anyone who goes by the motto of treating everyone like they would like to see themselves treated shouldn't mind a little extra scrutiny.

[thelakelander]

I couldn't help but notice these two places in the St. Nicholas Town Center, while collecting images this morning.  I wonder if the residents in that community believe they are negatives?

[cindi]

hamsterdam - we're not totally useless, we serve as a bad example. 

[CS Foltz]

I am still confused.............SPAR (Springfield Preservation and Restoration? Right?) should not be involved in business decisions either for or against.......residents should have that option, right or wrong! I would suggest SPAR Headquarters is in direct violation of its mandate since that bldg looks like an apartment and not a very nice one...........why does it not reflect something historic or preserved?

[uptowngirl]

hamsterdam - we're not totally useless, we serve as a bad example. 

Truer words have never been said.

[Miss Fixit]

I am still confused.............SPAR (Springfield Preservation and Restoration? Right?) should not be involved in business decisions either for or against.......residents should have that option, right or wrong! I would suggest SPAR Headquarters is in direct violation of its mandate since that bldg looks like an apartment and not a very nice one...........why does it not reflect something historic or preserved?

SPAR stands for Springfield Preservation and Revitalization, I believe.

LOL - yes, the SPAR building needs some SERIOUS revitalization!!!!

[sheclown]

I believe it changed from the original  "Restoration" to "Revitalization" in 2003.