Businesses closing all around and ...we have this...

[sheclown]

Jacksonville Businesses Cited for Illegal Banner Signs
Ken Amaro  Taren Reed     Created: 3/8/2010 6:07:46 PM    Updated: 3/8/2010 6:50:42 PM

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Banner signs are everywhere, from Main Street to the shopping centers and promote the respective businesses. But Jacksonville's Property Safety Division said the signs are illegal.

"There was no warning that this is against the law, " said Jack Turk, manager of the China Super Buffet restaurant on Dunn Avenue.

The business has had a large banner sign advertising its menu, until this past weekend.

"They came in and said it was an illegal sign and gave us a $250 citation," Turk said. "They could have told us first and we would have taken it down."

Turk's fine is actually $255; $250 plus a $5 court cost. But Turk said he plans to fight in court.

"I don't think they gave us fair warning," he said.

"If it is something that needs a permit, we will be more than happy to get a permit," he added.

The China Supper Buffet is just one of several businesses cited by zoning code enforcement officials. More than 150 citations were issued over the weekend.

The city ordinance allows permits for the signs. But according to the zoning code, the banners are illegal if they are tacked, tied, or pasted to a hydrant, tree, lamppost, telephone or utility pole, fence or building.

The chief of the division said because the illegal signs are temporary in nature, the officers do not have to give a warning they can cite immediately.

Turk said he's looking for his day in court. And he has a message for other business owners: "All I can say to the next person with this kind of sign is beware."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=152937&provider=rss

[Bativac]

What a town. What a town.

Many of us younger folks who plan on starting businesses of our own are giving serious consideration to doing so outside of Jacksonville. I just don't understand. Was this sign hurting people? Did it disturb anyone? Am I reading this right -- it's illegal to tie a sign to a building?? I can understand a fire hydrant or a utility pole, but a building?!

Don't advertise your business unless the sign fits within the confines as specified by the sign ordinance. Be careful walking on the Riverwalk or you're liable to break your neck on loose boards. Don't even think about moving or restoring an historic structure - it's cheaper and easier to knock it down and fence off the vacant lot.

Sometimes I'm embarrassed and frustrated to call this place my hometown. I don't understand the mindset. I recall vividly as a kid growing up in the St Nicholas area, a friend and I had a little Kool-Aid stand set up in my driveway. I think the two bucks we made came from our parents. Anyway, some neighbor came by and, frowning, said to us, "now, you know you're supposed to have a business license." He spoke to my friend's aunt and she made us take the stand down.

What a town.

[riverside_mail]

That was an easy way to score 38 grand in a weekend.

[strider]

Can you say fundraising?

[sheclown]

What we need, during tough times, is a bit of common sense.  Give the guys a warning and then impose a fine if the warning is not heeded.  

Don't fine a business (which provides jobs, pays a landlord, buys from suppliers, ie. helps fuel the economy) in such drastic times.  Most businesses are just trying to hold on -- the city ought to be helping them, not hurting them.

A code enforcement officer came to us at the thrift store and told us we had to remove all outdoor merchandise:  clothes & etc and our outdoor sandwich board sign.  We did and did not get fined.  A $250.00 fine would have really hurt us.   

I feel badly for this restaurant, and any business who struggles during these times against unreasonable government actions.  Life is hard enough.  Let's help small businesses hang on, not pull them down.

[thelakelander]

They have been doing this to individuals for a while now.  On one of my properties I was cited for having an illegal fence (that was installed in the 1980s, btw).  Up until a few months ago, I had no idea it was illegal since the city hadn't complained about it since I purchased the property in 2005.

[mtraininjax]

No one is complaining in Clay or St. Johns county, move to another county if you want a different decision. You need more than cash and assets to run a business, you need a brain and have a plan and sometimes you need to know the law.

One guy with 1 restaurant complaining? 255 was a gift.

[sheclown]

No one is complaining in Clay or St. Johns county, move to another county if you want a different decision. You need more than cash and assets to run a business, you need a brain and have a plan and sometimes you need to know the law.

One guy with 1 restaurant complaining? 255 was a gift.

What could possibly have been wrong in issuing a warning and not a citation?

Furthermore, "knowing" the law, all of the ordinances?  Come on.  Perhaps educating businesses about signage could have been done (ie.  with a warning?) first.

How many local businesses have gone under in the past year?  Why not support local businesses instead knee-capping them when lost business has hit them so hard.

Yeah, move to another county!  That will show 'em all.  Take your jobs, your taxes, your supply purchases elsewhere (but let us keep the $255).

Anti-stimulus package.

[fsu813]

I can see it both ways.

Yes, in a fair world a warning for the store would be nice and appreciated.

However, there's something said for personal responsibility. If you're a restaurant owner you should darn well know what the rules on advertising and signage are.

Can't count on the "but I didn't know! but noone told me!" excuse once your an adult.

[sheclown]

There seem to be two types of organizations out there now.  The first kind sees the economic downtown and screams "OMG, I need to make sure I can get mine" In this camp are the credit card companies who (for no apparent reason) raise interest rates for...just because...reasons.  JEA is in this group -- blast those who are having trouble paying their bill by demanding excessive deposits (and therefore make sure they really have a hard time paying their bill).  COJ is in this group with its tax increases and multitude of "fees."

The second group finds a way to work with people, understanding that all people are having a tough time now and if a tad of compassion is displayed perhaps, invested, then the businesses may just be around for a bit longer. 

These are small businesses, I'm sure, who were punished this weekend. Not the big boys who receive "bail outs".  The small guys don't even receive appreciation for their continued struggles in this economy. 

Keep it up and that $255 fee will turn into many more dollars of lost revenue, a real burden to the local pockets of Jacksonville.

[strider]

Once again, let's put the onus on the business owner or the property owner, after all, they should and must know every single law and code that might possibly effect them someday.  

Of course, and this is from personal experience, the code enforcement people seldom know the laws and codes as well as they should so how can we expect the regular citizens to know them either?  

Is the purpose of the code enforcement department to penalize the citizens for not knowing everything there is about the laws and codes or is it to protect the citizens from the issues that caused the codes and laws to be written.  If it is the latter, then they should be educating and warning then fining.  

In fact, from listening to the Special Master, he believes the latter and feels it is his job not to always fine immediately, but to work with the citizens to help them comply. Code enforcement, by going out and fining without warning is not educating, they are fundraising.  And while it may be legal, it shows a lack of understanding of how hard these current times are and a lack of common sense.

[JeffreyS]

To cite or not to cite depends on your objective. If your objective is to have an illegal sign removed you just give the owner a warning end of story. If your objective is to hassle the guy or raise some money you cite. Simple.

[fsujax]

When I saw this, I was like you have to be kidding me? wth??? The City has way more important issues to be dealing with.

[Shwaz]

Not sure anyone can expect "I didn't know I couldn't do that" to work every time. I'd like a warning every time I get pulled over by FHP but when you break the rules you pay the consequences.

[Jason]

Just as they say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

And I personally think that those signs scattered all over the medians are hideous and need to remain outlawed.