Lost Jacksonville: Union Terminal

[Ocklawaha]

My grandfather as well as my father worked for the Atlantic Coast Line from 1920 till 1968.  I had an executive pass that granted "professional courtesy" on all lines.  All during the late 1950's and 1960's, as a teenager, I travelled the country with this pass.  All you had to do was show up at the concourse and board.  Many times during the Xmas Holidays the trains were completely full of Vietnam War soldiers and I had to sit in a lounge area with my suitcase, sleeping sitting up.  

In 1948 President Truman's mandate thru the Interstate  Commerce Commission and the U.S. Courts banned segregation in railroad dining cars. Black passengers in the early 1950's, in the South, were restricted to the "colored" coach which was located behind the diesel.   I remember as a very young boy walking back to the passenger coach in the dark to find my parents and I walked into this car on the Champion.    It struck me as being very odd because many of the ACL employees on the train were African American.  By 1957 the "colored" coach on the Champion was retired.  However, I do remember that most of the restrooms up until the mid 1960's were segregated in most of the small southern town depots.  

I too enjoyed your account major. I ran across the supposed integration of our trains, when searching through the streetcar company files.  Then again with railroad company legal history's. I do have the photo of one of those signs that stood above the restrooms in Jacksonville Terminal. As I said, I don't know the details, or how (if at all) the employees responded to this thinking. I am certain of one thing, and that being it wasn't done out of any feeling of equality, rather cold, hard, economics.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Nice poem, Major.  Definitely evokes a time past.  Enjoyed your other accounts as well.

Sorry about your Dad.  That had to be especially tough at age 15.  I try to never take people for granted and stories like this keep me mindful of that.

[Ocklawaha]

Major, I have a question for you. How did they route you on the Dixie Flyer to New Orleans? Wartime? I can't think of any other reason.

The Dixie Flyer ran from Chicago - Evansville - Nashville - Chattanooga - Atlanta - Manchester - Jacksonville - Daytona Beach - West Palm Beach - Miami

Maybe they sent you by way of Atlanta? That would have been one cool trip.

Randy Newman seems to be singing about the Sunset or Sunbeam, those were the Los Angeles - New Orleans trains, he apparently borrowed the Dixie Flyer name to paint a broad palate.

In any case, since I'm the unofficial train photo guy, here is the Dixie Flyer in better days.


Dixie Flyer #95 roars past on the Main as the South Wind #92 sits in the hole, Tallahoma, TN about 1961


OCKLAWAHA

[MajorCordite]

Oklawaha, you are the tops!   I'm looking for an editior    I corrected my post. I meant to say the Gulf Wind out of Union Station.   And I think you are correct about Randy Newman's Dixie Flyer.  Artistic license?  Maybe he was referring to the Sunset Limited?   Maybe it's a bit to hard to do a S.L. piano rift.  

Also, help me out here.  On your picture above of #95, was it true that the ACL bought the Louisville and Nashville Railroad system way back in the early 1900's, but kept the L&N separate for its entire life?  Thanks.

[Ocklawaha]

Yes, Major, you are 100% correct, the L&N was a ACL property, as was the NC&STL (Nashville Chattanooga and St. Louis) though the NC&STL were folded into the L&N. In the early 20's +/- a decade or two, the railroads in Dixie went through several major changes... For example the old Georgia and Florida Railroad, life long "basket case" from Greenwood SC, through Augusta GA, Midville, Vidalia, Hazelhurst, Douglas, Valdosta, Madison FL, was cobbled together by the former Seaboard President (John Williams). It's not generally known that the G&F was M/L a ward of the Seaboard until about 1960, it was sold in 63 to the Southern Railway, who merged it into their Central of Georgia.  The Central of Georgia was another toy in the box. It actually belonged to the Illinois Central from about 1910 until the mid 50's. This effectively gave them a road stretching from Sioux Falls SD, Chicago IL, Indianapolis IN, to Dallas TX, New Orleans, and Savannah GA!  In a shuffle during the mid 1950's the IC left the CofG and the Frisco stepped into the void. The Frisco itself was part of the "Rock Island - Frisco System" and adding the CofG created a railroad from Colorado Springs CO, Denver CO, Minneapolis MN, Chicago IL, to El Paso TX, Houston TX, Pensacola FL, Savannah GA! The ROCK was riding so high that it applied for an equal partner merger with the Union Pacific System, however the ICC held up a decision for 10+ years, in the meantime disaster struck. The Frisco - Rock Island system (like the MKT or KATY) bought into the "new age" thinking from Wall Street that recommended that the seasonal Granger railroads should practice deferred railroad maintenance to flush cash out that could be used for equipment and other investments. Within 5 years, some of the grain belt trackage had sunk so far into the mud that it vanished from the prairie's. Rail cars standing alone in yards or sidings would suddenly derail, as rails would twist under the heavy loads, without fresh roadbed ballast, leveling, and tie replacements. By the time the ICC finally gave the go-ahead on the merger, the Rock had lost the Frisco and CofG, it's plant was a shambles and a doomsday clock started ticking, one that ended in 1980.

What is so cool from a local point of view is how close we came to adding two more major railroad connections with the world. Imagine what a EAST COAST ROCKET might have looked like, "Rock Island - Frisco's new all coach streamliner from Denver to Miami (via Jacksonville)." or Imagine if the Illinois Central's Magnolia would have had a sister? "Illinois Central's new winter season Orange Blossom, From St. Louis to Miami..."  Of course or then again, the Georgia and Florida RR might have finally made it all the way to Tampa and to Charlotte, with a natural sub-main into Jax. All of these things probably would have happened save for the Depression and WWII. Weird thing is, even in this age of Merger madness, we would STILL have 4-5 independent railroads (rather then 3 majors today) as the Frisco is now part of BNSF, The IC is Canadian National.



This isn't the Gulf Wind but it is the "Tallahassee Flyer" of the Seaboard Air Line Railroad. A Jacksonville - Tallahassee shuttle to compliment the existent Jacksonville - Gainesville trains... Don't we wish?


Governor and Mrs. Sholtz greeted the Tallahassee Flyer, streamlined DMU of the Seaboard Air Line Railway Company. Mrs. Sholtz christened the train on the exhibition run from Jacksonville.

Included in the photograph are Justice Fred Henry Davis on the far left, Governor Sholtz and his wife third and fourth from the left, Justice Rivers Buford and his son Rivers Buford Jr. sixth from the left, Chief Justice James B. Whitfield ninth from the left. The location of the following in the photograph are unknown: W.B. Douglass the chairman of the Railroad Commission and Federal Judge Louie Strum. Photographed on January 3, 1936. At Jacksonville Terminal.

You see the more things change, the more they stay the same. This is exactly what we are trying to interest the City / State / Amtrak into doing again, along with a sister train to and from Gainesville. Even the DMU's in this photo are being offered on the market again... Who would have thunk it?

GEEZE GUYS! See what happens when someone like Major goes and tips my history bucket over? Damn!

OCKLAWAHA

[LPBrennan]

The Seaboard Air Line's "Silver Meteor" did not replace the "Orange Blossom Special" as stated in the picture of the original "Meteor" at the Terminal, dated February 2, 1939. The "Special" was a winter-only train, inaugurated in January 1925 and making its last run in April 1953. It was a Pullman-only train through most of its career and served both coasts of Florida, sometimes as  separate trains. In many seasons it by-passed Jacksonville altogether. The "Meteor" was begun as a coach-only train between New York and Miami on a limited schedule until enough light-weight equipment could be delivered to make it a daily train with a Tampa-St. Pete connection from Wildwood, which was originally handled by a light Pacific shrouded and painted in a "citrus" (green-orange-yellow) scheme similar to the E4 diesels. Three of the Seaboard's new E4s (A units 3000 and 3001 with B unit 3100) were operated on a system-wide tour from Washington to Florida between October 31 and November 22, 1938. The train's consist was two "American Flyer" cars, a diner, and three heavyweight sleepers. (It was at Jacksonville November 8, and the sight of the colorful diesels inspired Chubby Wise and Ervin Rouse to compose their eponymous song that night.) After the tour, the E4s were used on the winter-only "Special" beginning December 15, 1939 from New York. The Seaboard advertised the 1939-40 "Special" as the only all-electric train to Florida, handled by electric locomotives over the Pennsylvania Railroad from New York and the diesel-electric E4s from Washington south. (Remember: A "diesel" locomotive is actually an electric locomotive that carries its own power plant.) When the "Meteor" began operating about six weeks later, both trains used the new locomotives. The "Meteor" was a year-round train and never a replacement for the extra-fare "Special." Eventually, sleepers and first-class lounges were added to the light-weight train, the culmination being the three Sun Roof bedroom-lounges, unique to the Seaboard. The last E4 of Seaboard's order, 3014, was put on display in the summer of 1939 at the World's Fair in New York. (Thanks to Theodore Shrady and Arthur Waldrop for information from their book, "Orange Blossom Special: Florida's Distinguished Winter Train" and to Joseph M. Welsh, "By Streamliner New York to Florida.")

[LPBrennan]

Oh- and speaking of the song "Orange Blossom Special"- nice to see the words there. And I suppose Cash does a fair job of singing it, though his tempo is more reminiscent of a branch line local than a crack Florida flyer, which the "Special" was- In my opinion, the best version ever recorded was the instrumental by Billy Vaughn. It rocks, it rolls, it roars down the track and wails for the crossings of small Carolina towns. Check the YouTube link- no video accompaniment, but just listen- and feel the room rock and sway as she swings into the curves...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzxFrGCenS8

[stjr]

LP, welcome to MJ.  Enjoyed your history and the music post.  The music paints a great picture in this rendition.  Would love to see someone add a video of a running train to it.

[Ocklawaha]

Examples of the two railroad car type's we have been discussing:



Pullman heavyweight sleeper "Lake Caroline" (10 sections, 1 drawing room, 2 compartments) leads Seaboard Air Line Railway heavyweight sleeper "New Portage" (10 sections, 1 drawing room, 2 compartments).


Perhaps the most famous American train of all time, the California Zephyr was a lightweight wonder that lasted until the eve of Amtrak on it's Chicago - Oakland route THROUGH the Rocky's, not around them. Sadly it was cut just a year before Amtrak took over, but one doubts it would have made the cut anyway... One "sailed" onboard the CZ, where one RIDES Amtrak.

Welcome aboard LP. I'd still consider the OBS replaced by the Meteor, if not officially, by specific time and date, certainly by the ground swell of changes that came about with lightweight streamlined equipment, and as you stated when the lightweights went Pullman, that was pretty much the ball game. The same thing happened all over the country as onetime heavyweight flagship "all Pullman (sleeper)" trains were either phased out, or modernized, usually with a mix of Pullman and Coach Class cars. In the heyday of the OBS, no self respecting Pullman customer would have been seen mingling with the Coach class folks. Maybe it was WWII that merged our societies, after spending 5 years sleeping together in fox holes, it no longer mattered.

My family as well as another long lost cousin on this site, created the sleeping car patents for just about everything we relate to pull down, fold out, pop up, camping, sleeping, etc...  The MANN BOUDOIR CAR COMPANY, was later sold to Pullman Standard.

I have ridden both the heavyweights and the lightweights, and though the later were far more popular with the "in" crowd of the 40's - 60's, I really think the old Heavyweights rode way better.


OCKLAWAHA
BTW, Charlie Daniels wasn't too bad on the OBS song either!

[Miss Fixit]

LP and OCK -

I've recently been reading about the railroads in Florida between the Civil War and 1900.  One thing that interests me is the use of railroad officials "private cars" to evacuate prominent citizens of Jacksonville during the yellow fever epidemics.  Any idea what those private railroad cars would have looked like, say around 1889?

[LPBrennan]

The biggest reason for the disappearance of the heavyweights (and all-Pullman trains in general) was the collapse of rail passenger service after World War II. Railroads had been looking for lightweight trains since 1900, mostly for purposes of cutting costs, especially on branch lines. Trying to adapt internal combustion to rail use was another impetus to lower cost. The Florida East Coast ran a gas-electric car out of the old Jacksonville Terminal (the 1896 one with the thousand-foot train shed) for Mayport service around 1910. It was not too successful and was sold to a railroad in Minnesota. Diesel locomotives were built in the 1920s, but they were slow and not very powerful. The Depression of the 1930s lead to more experiments with cost-cutting lightweights, using various power plants and material like aluminum, but it was the collaboration of four men: Ralph Budd of the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy; Edward G. Budd (no relation) who discovered the way to fabricate stainless steel; Harold Hamilton whose Electro-Motive Corporation succeeded in building smaller, powerful diesels; and Charles Kettering of General Motors, who bought Hamilton's company and promoted the development of the diesel engine in America, that produced the most famous lightweight train, the Zephyr, which attracted world-wide attention with a dawn to dusk run from Denver to Chicago on May 26, 1934. By the end of the decade America was running the fastest trains in the world, with thousands of miles daily run at speeds approaching 100 mph (or better!). Most but not all of these trains were diesel-powered lightweights. Lightweight generally meant stainless steel, air-conditioned cars with a low arched roof and smooth sides or corrugated stainless steel. General Motors built most of the diesels, and the lightweight engines and trains were painted a rainbow of colors, unlike the drab greens and browns that dominated for decades before that. Even steam locomotives received shrouds and colors, and some were built specifically for the light, fast trains that captured the public's imagination and increased ridership. These trains made money.
World War II curtailed these developments as the nation's railroads were used to serve the military emergency. Trains were canceled and speeds slowed, an excise tax of 15% placed on all tickets to fund the war and discourage travel. (Is this trip necessary? posters asked.) American railroads planned great developments at the conflict's end. Orders were placed for great fleets of modern, comfortable cars.
But the Federal government had other ideas. Every congressional district clamored for its own airport- and got it. In 1948, the Interstate Commerce Commission outlawed all trains faster than 79 mph on most track. (Just because it could- there was no evidence that fast trains were dangerous.) The railroad brotherhoods refused to relax labor laws that dated to World War I when passenger trains were much slower and required firemen. (Example- it took fifteen men- three complete crews- to run a train from Jacksonville to Miami on the FEC.) And to pay for new roads, states and municipalities raised taxes on railroad-owned facilities. That war-time excise tax remained until the 1960s. In 1955, the federal government got involved in road-building with the Interstate Defense Highways. The rail system collapsed. Car-building all but ceased, and heavyweights disappeared because they were no longer needed. (Fifty years was considered a normal life span for passenger cars- heavyweights built in the Twenties were in regular use up to Amtrak.) Hundreds of modern lightweight cars were sold to Canada and Mexico as railroads cut back or abandoned the passenger train. We in Florida were fortunate, because the New York-Florida service remained popular until Amtrak. We did not see the deteriorating service one saw on the Penn Central or elsewhere. In winter of 1970, Seaboard Coast Line was operating four first-class trains a day, which often ran to twenty cars of coaches, sleepers, lounges and diners. There were several coach-only trains as well (often with modernized heavyweight cars), and daily service to Naples, Sarasota, Fort Myers, and Venice, with two routes to Tampa, St. Petersburg and Miami. Amtrak improved trains in a lot of the country, but not in Florida!

[LPBrennan]

LP and OCK -

I've recently been reading about the railroads in Florida between the Civil War and 1900.  One thing that interests me is the use of railroad officials "private cars" to evacuate prominent citizens of Jacksonville during the yellow fever epidemics.  Any idea what those private railroad cars would have looked like, say around 1889?

They would have looked like the brass-railed, open-platform observation cars seen on the ends of the main passenger trains of the era. In the era before vestibules, the train end would also have had an open platform, with open steps on both sides. The railed platform allowed passengers to ride outside, and officials to inspect the line. The cars may also have been older cars, as many "private" or "business" cars were converted from older stock. Usually only the president of the railroad was afforded a new, specially-built car. Many officers and superintendents had private cars which were essentially traveling offices. A car of the 1880s would have been wood construction throughout, with an open clerestory. It would have been anywhere from 60' to about 75' long.
During the yellow fever epidemic, when the city of Jacksonville was under quarantine, trains passed the town. They would have stopped at LaVilla Junction, the area west of the current I-95. Crews and locomotives were changed here, but the cars were locked to prevent anyone from leaving or entering the city.

[Ocklawaha]

OCKLAWAHA

[Miss Fixit]

Thanks for the great info and photographs!  Here's an item regarding trains and yellow fever from the October 15, 1888 isssue of the New York Times:

"Captain D.E. Maxwell and his chief engineer, Mr. Bushnell, of the Florida Railway and Navigation Company, who are recovering from a very severe attack of the prevailing Fernandina fever, left this morning in the Captain's private car for a Northern recuperative tour.  They will be accompanied by Col. and Mrs. F. R. Osborne of this city, who join the others at Baldwin. Mrs. Osborne has been very ill and stands in need of a change of scene.  Her husband, Manager of the Southern Express, has decided to accompany and care for her upon this trip, and they will visit Virginia, Baltimore and the East, going by way of Pensacola on the Louisville and Nashville."

[LPBrennan]

The current Jacksonville Terminal is the 1919 structure which replaced the original facility opened in the 1890s. I drew this aerial view of it based on photos, plans, and Sanford maps in the library. All that is left is the reconstructed tower on Bay Street. The original trainshed- which was over 1,000' long, was blown down by a hurricane in 1895 and was rebuilt. (I mis-dated the original drawing. Someday I'll correct that. Meanwhile- it's an error.)

In this postcard view from the Florida State collection, you can see the roof of the center concourse which bisected the train shed.