Lost Jacksonville: Union Terminal

[LPBrennan]

Another drawing I did of the old Jacksonville Terminal. This shows Florida East Coast #61- a 4-4-2 atlantic-type locomotive- heading a train about to leave for points south. This grand facade stood over the tracks at the east end of the trainshed. The west end had two arched openings with three towers. I drew these two drawings for use on the covers of the annual banquet Program for the North Florida Chapter, National Railroad Historical Society.

[stjr]

LP, you have talent as well as knowledge!  A real "Renaissance man"!  This is neat stuff.  I don't recall seeing a representation of the original station before.  It would be great to combine elements of this into the proposed intermodal terminal, especially if it was relocated to the Prime Osborn site as advocated by many here.  Of course, that would take vision and thought, and, at present, JTA and FDOT have failed to demonstrate either.

[Ocklawaha]

Okay, put me down for one print copy! Love it.

I've always liked the old Trainshed design, and if JTA get's it's way, they will return the tracks to this same level (McCoy's Creek), meaning every time it storms, the railroad will be shut down for flooding.

The reason most of the train-shed's came down is they are dirty places unless one is operating electric locomotives.


OCKLAWAHA

[Cliffs_Daughter]

I don't know if anyone else posted this, but I ran across some photos of the terminal fire - courtesy of the Jacksonville Fire Museum.
I'm not up on my history to know when this happened.  Looks like 70's based on the cars I see... oops, I just answered my own question there - 1979.

Photos #1 and 9 are nice contrast.
http://www.jacksonvillefiremuseum.com/Terminal_1.html

[fsujax]

wow. great pictures. sad, but nice historical perspective. The fire was in the 1970's.

[Ernest Street]

Great find! Those Benjamin Moore Paint signs outside  sure tell us what accelerated it

[stjr]

I remember the Bay Street Post Office, the main P.O. for Jax, before Kings Road was built, that sat down the block from the station and this fire, just short of Myrtle.  Now, just another under used parking lot like the much of the rest of downtown Jax history.  So, why was it torn down?  Another decision with no likely rational answer.

There were rows of brick warehouses lining the north side of Bay Street and the south side of Forsyth as I recall with the rail sidings running down the middle of the block between the two streets.  You can see some remnants of this in the photo below.

Bay Street P.O. is the white roofed building in upper right of photo as I see it.  It's also interesting to see McCoy's creek in this photo looking like a navigable tributary to the St. Johns, not an oversized ditch.

[LPBrennan]

The West Bay Annex was one of Klutho's last buildings, I believe. Not having Wood's book handy.... It was one of the places the Gateway Model Railroad Club occupied. We were there for several years in the late 70s, until we were hit by break-ins and finally serious vandalism that damaged a lot of the layout. We moved to the rooms above Owens Pharmacy in Five Points, where we remained for twenty years. The Club lost the space three years ago; our layout was dismantled and we meet only for dinner and programs now.

One of the buildings across Bay Street was the Terminal Company commissary. They sold clothing and other gear there used by the employees. For thirty-five cents you could buy a Terminal Company patch. I bought a bunch and gave most of them away. I think I have one left somewhere. (Should've bought the whole damned box!)

[stjr]

Did a Google photo search and it brought me right back to good 'ol MJ.  Along with the West Bay Annex, the last picture of the ACL terminal on Forsyth is one of the buildings I had in mind in my earlier post.


Union Terminal - West Bay Street (the facade still remains)



West Bay P.O. Annex:



Atlantic Coast Line Terminal - SW corner of Forsyth & Jefferson;

[Ocklawaha]

"THE GULF WIND"
   ... ANOTHER MJ PROPOSAL

LEAVES                                                    ARRIVES
8:00....AM.........JACKSONVILLE.(See Notes)..11:30...PM
9:30....AM..........Lake City.........................10:30...PM
12:05..PM...........TALLAHASSEE...................8:00....PM
12:10..PM...........Chattahoochee.................5:55....PM
12:55..PM...........Cottondale.......................4:10....PM
2:55....PM...........Crestview........................3:10....PM
4:20....PM...........PENSACOLA.....................1:45....PM
5:45....PM...........Floamington.....................12:20...PM
7:20....PM...........MOBILE...........................10:45..AM
8:14....PM...........Pascagoula.......................9:45...AM
8:44....PM...........Edgewater Park.................9:22...AM
9:11....PM...........Bay St. Louis....................8:55...AM
10:20...PM..........NEW ORLEANS.(See Notes)..7:45...AM

* Sleeping cars to or from the Sunset Limited (connecting train) may be occupied overnight in New Orleans. No change of cars for Florida - Sunset Limited Passengers.


+ Sleeping cars to or from the City Of New Orleans (connecting train) may be occupied overnight in New Orleans
affording passengers with an evening or morning of free time in New Orleans. No change of cars for Florida - City of New Orleans Passengers.

# Sleeping cars to or from Miami, South and Central Florida will be forwarded on The Palmetto, a connecting train from Jacksonville,  no change of cars required.

XX - This proposed schedule is based on actual rail travel times at freight train speeds only for an over-all average speed of 40.52 MPH.  With passenger trains reaching 79 MPH on much of Florida's trackage tightening this schedule could be easily done.

      "THE PALMETTO"

LEAVES                                                              ARRIVES

6:15....AM.....NEW YORK CITY....PENN STATION......10:56..PM
9:54....AM.....Washington DC................................7:05...PM
11:49...AM.....Richmond.......................................4:30...PM
3:27....PM......Fayetteville...................................12:54..PM
6:46....PM......Charleston.....................................10:40..AM
8:34....PM......Savannah......................................8:00....AM
11:23..PM.......JACKSONVILLE...............................5:45....AM
----------------------------------------------------------------
11:58..PM.......JACKSONVILLE................................5:16...AM
3:25....AM.......ORLANDO......................................1:41...AM
7:24....AM.......West Palm Beach...........................10:05..PM
8:32....AM........FT LAUDERDALE............................9:00....PM
9:25....AM........MIAMI.........................................8:15....PM

YY - This schedule demonstrates the insanity of AMTRAK currently turning the PALMETTO at Savannah. It is missing a 1.3 MILLION PERSON market by 149 rail miles. As this train previously operated into JAX and beyond for a short time, the current station can handle it until Jacksonville Terminal comes back on line.

>>  - The speeds on this schedule are REAL passenger train speeds taken from standard Amtrak times to all of these stations.  So actual travel times shown are for 79 MPH trains.

## -  This is a condensed schedule and does NOT show all of the intermediate stops

WELL FOLKS? WHATCHA THINK??  Think it'll fly Wilbur?

One new train, and one train extension and we gain service to Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California and the Florida Pan Handle.


OCKLAWAHA

[LPBrennan]

Dream on. It ain't illegal... not yet, anyway!

I mentioned the Gateway Model Railroad Club, which was located at various times in the Terminal, the East Coast Terminal warehouse on Forsyth Street, the West Bay Annex Post Office, and Owen's Pharmacy in Five Points.

While we were at the A&EC warehouse, I acquired a partial set of plans for the headhouse- enough to give me the three dimensions for a model. Though the drawings were 1/8" to the foot (1:96), I built one to full HO 1:87 scale. This is one of the structures severely damaged by vandalism at West Bay. I kept the parts for years and only put it back together (sort of) when the guys at NorthEast Florida Model Railroad Club, then based at Moosehaven in Orange Park, asked if they could use it on their modular layout which they took to the National Model Railroad Association's convention at Atlanta in 1995. Here's a picture of the reconstructed model. It didn't bear close inspection, but it was in the center of the layout. A number of people commented that they remembered going through that station.

[stjr]

Larry, your talents continue to amaze.

Great work.

[mtraininjax]

I remember the Bay Street Post Office, the main P.O. for Jax

STJR - Wasnt't the main post office along Adams Street? It had a bell tower and was close to Hogan and Adams. Could have also been on Forsyth, replaced by the Atlantic Bank Building.

Larry - When are you going to create some more prints for cards?

[stjr]

I remember the Bay Street Post Office, the main P.O. for Jax

STJR - Wasnt't the main post office along Adams Street? It had a bell tower and was close to Hogan and Adams. Could have also been on Forsyth, replaced by the Atlantic Bank Building.

Mtrain, I suspect Jax has had several "main" P.O.'s over a hundred plus years of history so you may be correct for one such period.

The main P.O. for downtown P.O. Boxes for as long as I could recall growing up was the ground floor of the old Federal Courthouse building.  But, I believe the West Bay Annex was the "main" location for receiving mail shipped by rail and processing it for further delivery.  Also, I seem to recall there were boxes or package pickups there at some point as I know my father visited West Bay when it was open to receive mail occasionally.

[LPBrennan]

For about half a century after The Fire, this was the Federal building and main Post Office downtown:



This shows the streetcar track on Hogan after it was doubled.