Urban core neighborhoods set to lose many trees

[fsu813]

reednavy,

you seem to the expert.....

3 questions:

- are magnolia's & live oaks relatively drought resistant?

- do thier roots pose a threat to a house's foundation?

- if so, could i get away with planting about about 15 away from the foundation?

Thanks!

[reednavy]

Yes they're drought resistant, but that is after years, usually 3-5, after being planted and becoming established. However, they're both only moderate resistant for the first 10 years, but can be very tolerant. The same can be said for magnolias.

Borth trees roots can pose a threat to foudnations, as both species get quite large, which equal large roots.

15ft away seems reasonable, but I have no idea  what your yard is like, so use your best personal judgement.

This site is one of my absolute favorites, and has info galore on just about any plant out there.
http://www.floridata.com/index.cfm

[Cliffs_Daughter]

http://fufc.org/

This is the site for Florida Urban Forestry Council. I have a few poster/brochures from them (JEA sponsored the project), and it's great info about proper trees, height/easement conditions, etc.

[mtraininjax]

RAP has an active tree sale program going on now that is taking orders until March 1st. Prices range from 225-425 including the delivery, installation, and a one year guarantee.

Uh, the crape myrtles that Mayor Delaney gave away in 2002 are still growing in our yard and in our City Maintained median. THEY WERE FREE. Even a Florida grad knows the value of Free.

[Sigma]

Live oaks are the best and grow relatively quick in the early years and then slow down.  Greenscape has a tree sale usually the last Saturday in February.  Their website will have more info.  The sell Treaty Oak live oaks for $15 but they are small.  With some attention, they grow quick.

You can also buy historic landmark tree seedlings, such as the Treaty Oak from http://www.historictrees.org/produ_ht/floridlive.htm

My neighborhood lost a lot of giant oaks back in the 2004 hurricanes.  After that, some homeowners decided to get proactive and cut even more down.  This weakens the remaining trees as the density of trees in an area helps protect them.  Hurricane Faye brought several more down. 

So, I go to the Greenscape sale and buy 5-10 trees every year and when a new homeowner moves into the neighborhood, I take a tree and plant it for them as a house-warming gift. 

FSU813 - 15ft should be fine for a live oak.  Anything closer, I would use a river birch or crape myrtle.  The roots are less intrusive.

[fsu813]

what do you consider growing "quick"?

i HATE crape myrtles. the city planted one in my front yard. i'm thinking of digging it out and putting something i like there.

[tufsu1]

If by 'Florida Grad' you mean a graduate from UF specifically, then please clarify.  Funny that you would choose the best research University in the South as your target of ridicule

not that this is a thread about UF, but I think the folks at Vandy, Emory, and Tulane might disagree

[sheclown]

Live oaks are the best and grow relatively quick in the early years and then slow down.  Greenscape has a tree sale usually the last Saturday in February.  Their website will have more info.  The sell Treaty Oak live oaks for $15 but they are small.  With some attention, they grow quick.

You can also buy historic landmark tree seedlings, such as the Treaty Oak from http://www.historictrees.org/produ_ht/floridlive.htm

My neighborhood lost a lot of giant oaks back in the 2004 hurricanes.  After that, some homeowners decided to get proactive and cut even more down.  This weakens the remaining trees as the density of trees in an area helps protect them.  Hurricane Faye brought several more down. 

So, I go to the Greenscape sale and buy 5-10 trees every year and when a new homeowner moves into the neighborhood, I take a tree and plant it for them as a house-warming gift. 

FSU813 - 15ft should be fine for a live oak.  Anything closer, I would use a river birch or crape myrtle.  The roots are less intrusive.

You are really a nice guy...btw.

[Sigma]

what do you consider growing "quick"?

i HATE crape myrtles. the city planted one in my front yard. i'm thinking of digging it out and putting something i like there.

I'd say "quick" for any oak would be  from a small sapling (waist high) to 8-10' tall within 5 years.  Oaks do grow slow as they get older, but hey, all trees do.  Oaks that can live over a hundred years +, grow at a slower rate than other trees.  I'm speaking very broadly here.  But most people think that oaks grow slow from the start.  They don't.  With proper care, they can grow rapidly in the early years.

Drive by 38 E 5th St (green house between Main and Hubbard. In the lot just to the right are 2 treaty oak trees planted in 2005.  They were about 5-6' when planted and didn't seem to do much for a couple years as those years had a lot of drought periods. But once the roots got established they've done well and started providing some shade to the west side of the house.  Its time for them to be pruned and they should continue to grow at a good rate for the next few years.

I don't care for crape myrtles either.  I jut mentioned them because they can be planted close to the house.  I like river birch and also look at drake elm.

[Sigma]

You are really a nice guy...btw.

Aww shucks.

[deathstar]

Lakeshore Blvd. has lost a huge chunk of canopy in the last 20 years I've been living here. Every year a badass storm comes through, boom, you hear the thud of a tree hitting the ground or a transformer blowing and the power going out.

[Sigma]

If you have any large trees on your property it is a good idea to have a arborist come in and thin out the canopy before hurricane season. They thin it out taking the suckers and other non-essential limbs off to protect the general health of the tree. It also makes them less wind resistant and better able to keep standing in the big blow. You also will need them to check and see if there is any rot inside the core.

The old "air flow" myth is just that.... a myth.  and besides, most 'tree surgeons' don't know squat about air flow anyway.  Its just an old story to sell the home owners on pruning a tree to get some business.  Once they're done, it'll look like JEA was there.

The other part of your statement is absolutely correct.  A good certified arborist can help you by determining the overall health of a tree and make some prunings to lower the chances of future problems and balance the weight of leaning trees.  Notice some trees that have a lot of roots near the surface, or the ground is "swollen" around the base of the tree? This can be a sign that there is a high probability of a fall during the next big storm.  But then again, if the tree has other trees around it for protection, then maybe it won't fall for many years.
A good arborist can also use cables to prevent major branches from splitting the trunk in these old trees as well.

Live oaks add so much value to a homeowner, its worth it to hire a professional.  Find a certified arborist, and not just a guy with a chainsaw and a sign on his truck.

[reednavy]

The air flow thing is not a myth. I have seen it work in Central and South Florida in preparation for hurricane season. Quite a few of those trees remained standing, while others that had no care fell over. Of course, certain trees will fall over or split no matter what you do.

[Sigma]

The air flow thing is not a myth. I have seen it work in Central and South Florida in preparation for hurricane season. Quite a few of those trees remained standing, while others that had no care fell over. Of course, certain trees will fall over or split no matter what you do.

That's right.  You can't prove that those trees would have remained standing whether you pruned them or not.  And it depends on the type of tree as well.  These laurel and water oaks have shallow root systems and are prone to fall anyway.  Its a fallacy (told often to sell a tree trimming job) that has been told so much that people believe it.  

You can't say that you've seen it work because you can't prove it.  Heck, I've seen pruned trees fall relatively easy.  My neighbor moved in and "pruned" all of his trees to reduce a chance on a tree damaging his roof.  Guess what?  He lost about 3 during Faye.  Faye wasn't even a bad storm.   But it brought a lot of rain and the ground was so wet that the wind brought them right down.  

I think if you've got a tree out by itself with no other trees around it to protect it and the tree is extremely thick in it's canopy, then it probably makes sense to have some limbs removed.  All I'm saying is have a professional assess it and do the work.  

If you believe the myth, fine.  If it gives you peace of mind, then ok.  It's like gardening, not an exact science.

[Sigma]

http://www.greenscapeofjacksonville.org/


23rd Annual Flowering Tree Sale
Greenscape will celebrate twenty three years of providing quality plant material to Jacksonvillians as our Flowering Tree Sale gets underway at 7a.m. This annual event provides deeply discounted trees to the public and serves as a fundraiser for Greenscape of Jacksonville, the local non-profit tree planting volunteer organization. Be sure to come early as past years have been very successful and often sell out within a couple of hours! The location of the sale will be announced in plenty of time to make your plans to attend. By Mayoral Proclamation, the Flowering Tree Sale is Jacksonville’s official Arbor Day.
Thousands of trees and shrubs will be presented for sale at $10.00 each. A wide variety of species are usually offered, from Japanese Magnolias to Knock Out Roses. A final inventory of material will be posted closer to the sale. All material are sold in three gallon containers. Proceeds from the Sale support tree planting programs for Greenscape in Jacksonville.
As in the past, representatives from the Division of Forestry, tree growers, arborists, the Duval County Master Gardener Program, JEA Forestry and the American Society of Landscape Architects will be on hand to answer questions and assist in your selections. 

DATE: Saturday, February 27, 2010
TIME: 7:00 a.m.
PRICE: FREE
LOCATION: Parking lot at the intersection of Philips Highway and Emerson St.