Mayport Cruise Ship Terminal Proposal

[CS Foltz]

Tell that to the Mayport people! From what I have seen and read...........they are getting the short end of the stick! Things like this is why I say.........no vision and no plan! Not to mention Cruise ship numbers were down overall..........bigger ships and less riders!

[Ocklawaha]

Mayport is part of JACKSONVILLE. They had a chance to be independent and voted for inclusion, and launched on 40 years of complaining that Jacksonville ignores them, doesn't pave roads, lay sewers, pipe water, build public spaces...etc.  The Port comes up with a great plan to address ALL of those "wants" and needs, and provide public space for the residents to operate their seafood and gift shop businesses from...

Suddenly Jacksonville is always trying to mess with Mayport, the city won't leave us alone, we don't want Jacksonville!

Sorry y'all, this is bull shit pure and simple... I could do a hell of a lot for my community with a blank check, and the opportunity to help with a design. Damn!

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Tell that to the Mayport people! From what I have seen and read...........they are getting the short end of the stick! Things like this is why I say.........no vision and no plan! Not to mention Cruise ship numbers were down overall..........bigger ships and less riders!

1. Have you been to Mayport lately...they could use a shot in the arm
2. Cruise # maybe down overall...but the ship here continues to grow...and they just renovated it

In the end, a "vision" would be for Jax. to want to stay in the cruise business....and a "plan" would be to find a place for that.....JaxPort chose Mayport.

Once again, there is a vision/plan...you just don't like it.

[CS Foltz]

Ock..........I agree with you to a point! However between Jaxport and Vescor, most of the water front property is being bought out by Vesco or forced into foreclosure. Cruise Ship Terminal is also supposed to be located there and there just is not room for the local shrimpers and a cruise terminal so where do you go from there? What is historic waterfront now won't be in the future and I have to question just how much will be lost if a Cruise Terminal will go in! The Florida Shrimping Industry is slowly but surely being squeezed out!

[cline]

The Florida Shrimping Industry is slowly but surely being squeezed out!

I think this is true nationally.  Relating to Mayport though, I'm pretty sure part of the plan calls for new docks for the shrimp boats displaced.

[Ocklawaha]

Ock..........I agree with you to a point! However between Jaxport and Vescor, most of the water front property is being bought out by Vesco or forced into foreclosure. Cruise Ship Terminal is also supposed to be located there and there just is not room for the local shrimpers and a cruise terminal so where do you go from there? What is historic waterfront now won't be in the future and I have to question just how much will be lost if a Cruise Terminal will go in! The Florida Shrimping Industry is slowly but surely being squeezed out!

CS, come on man! They have offered a turning basin marina for the shrimp fleet, off the channel in effect their own private lake with an entry. They could have a private but the Mayportites started complaining that it's too shallow!  IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN ENGINEERED YET!

OCKLAWAHA

[reednavy]

Well, most of em there do live in trailers and flimsy looking houses, I wouldn't expect them to have the most sound judgement.

"Save our little village!" Save what exactly, there isn't a whole lot there now to be saved. The shrimpers can be moved and JAXPORT is willing to provide them the accomodations needed, yet they want to act all stupid about it.

[CS Foltz]

Well Gentlemen I see the direction that this is going but I am going to hold my ground.........what about the "Historic" part of Mayport? We sure seem concerned about Springfield,San Marco,Riverside and the like, I have to ask what about Mayport? Why should a fishing village be converted into a Cruise Ship Terminal or Luxury Condominiums, with a waterview or both at the same time. Ock you know as well as I do, Shrimpers need a "Turning Basin" like I need another hole in the head! The proposed terminal area had a turning basin Incorporated into the design did it not? The point being a Cruise ship needs a turning basin at that point in the river............Shrimp boats don't! If Mayport wishes to remain in the 18th Century, that's their call, but you can not drag them into our Century because John Rood/Vescor and John Meserve thinks it is a good idea! They have homes that date back several century's and shacks, no doubt about it, but if I lived there, I would be telling Jacksonville to shove it also! Our end of the world lacks lots, does it not? So who are we to be telling them just what to do and how to do it............don't give someone rocks when you live in a glass house!

[strider]

So, are there studies out there that would indicate whether a cruise ship terminal will make Mayport a destination and therefore tourist rich or not?  Can the residents find that information?  Then the residents can make an informed decision on whether they want that.  They live there, so it should be their choice.  It was a quiet little backward fishing port when they moved there so there was a reasonable expectation that it would remain so.  Majority rule and if they want to lose that aspect, assuming they would, then OK.  If not, then perhaps container ships would be a better choice.

The shrimpers need to campaign that if they get moved, then the dockage is free for them for a long period of time and the docks are maintained by funds from the cruise ships. Perhaps even make a new port than is historically accurate for a turn of the century port and make it part of the destination.  They could charge more for their shrimp that way.

[buckethead]

Well Gentlemen I see the direction that this is going but I am going to hold my ground.........what about the "Historic" part of Mayport? We sure seem concerned about Springfield,San Marco,Riverside and the like, I have to ask what about Mayport? Why should a fishing village be converted into a Cruise Ship Terminal or Luxury Condominiums, with a waterview or both at the same time. Ock you know as well as I do, Shrimpers need a "Turning Basin" like I need another hole in the head! The proposed terminal area had a turning basin Incorporated into the design did it not? The point being a Cruise ship needs a turning basin at that point in the river............Shrimp boats don't! If Mayport wishes to remain in the 18th Century, that's their call, but you can not drag them into our Century because John Rood/Vescor and John Meserve thinks it is a good idea! They have homes that date back several century's and shacks, no doubt about it, but if I lived there, I would be telling Jacksonville to shove it also! Our end of the world lacks lots, does it not? So who are we to be telling them just what to do and how to do it............don't give someone rocks when you live in a glass house!

CS!!!!!!

Stickin it to da man!

[Ocklawaha]

Well Gentlemen I see the direction that this is going but I am going to hold my ground.........what about the "Historic" part of Mayport? We sure seem concerned about Springfield,San Marco,Riverside and the like, I have to ask what about Mayport? Why should a fishing village be converted into a Cruise Ship Terminal or Luxury Condominiums, with a waterview or both at the same time. Ock you know as well as I do, Shrimpers need a "Turning Basin" like I need another hole in the head! The proposed terminal area had a turning basin Incorporated into the design did it not? The point being a Cruise ship needs a turning basin at that point in the river............Shrimp boats don't! If Mayport wishes to remain in the 18th Century, that's their call, but you can not drag them into our Century because John Rood/Vescor and John Meserve thinks it is a good idea! They have homes that date back several century's and shacks, no doubt about it, but if I lived there, I would be telling Jacksonville to shove it also! Our end of the world lacks lots, does it not? So who are we to be telling them just what to do and how to do it............don't give someone rocks when you live in a glass house!

My bad CS, the "turning basin" was my own bad choice of words, I used it because that is what it looks like on the plan, a micro Mayport Navy basin. If you are familiar with the little round lakes of Central Florida, it looks like that, maybe a city block in size, with dockage and support services all around. Very nice.

The cruise ships do not have a thing changed in the river, I'm not even sure they'll need to scoop out the bulkhead area's as large ships tie up there now. There will be NO real turning basin for either.

OCKLAWAHA

[Dog Walker]

Somehow the Port of Fernandina and Old Fernandina manage to coexist right next to one another.

[vicupstate]

Charleston is starting the process of creating a new Cruise terminal in the wake of Carnival's decision to base more cruises from there.   


PDF of the conceptual plan

http://www.unionpierplan.com/pdf/CRP-Concept%20Plan%20-%20Public%20Meeting%20Board.pdf   

A new 'front door'
Plan includes water views, relocation of cruise terminal, removal of eyesores

By Allyson Bird
The Post and Courier
Wednesday, February 10, 2010

A new development plan for Union Pier Terminal would restore Charleston's "historical front door," according to a consultant who described the current configuration as "making a garden and then putting all this junk in front of it."

The concept unveiled Tuesday calls for demolishing most of the aging buildings on the property, opening up some 50 acres of valuable waterfront land for public use and redevelopment. Also, it would relocate BMW's local port operations and shift cruise ship passengers from the dated terminal near the end of Market Street to an existing cargo building at the pier's north end.


A new cruise terminal master plan would recapture the waterfront for public use, allowing for concerts and other events on the side of the U.S. Customhouse that faces the shore.

Jaque Robertson, whose New York-based urban design firm was hired by the State Ports Authority as a consultant to evaluate the property, called the redevelopment proposal "one of the half-dozen most important urban projects in the U.S."

More than 200 people came to an afternoon presentation by port officials and Robertson's company inside the existing passenger terminal, which would be razed under the new plan. The new master plan also would shift Charleston's cruise business into a larger building that's now used to handle other cargo, possibly within three years.

The plan also moves cruise traffic away from the Market Street bustle by directing ship passengers onto the terminal site to park. A redrawn map of the area shows a series of rundown port buildings would be removed to create space for new parks, streets and unspecified real estate ventures.

Officials stressed that everything revealed Tuesday was nothing more than conceptual, saying a master plan could take decades to execute and that the details are likely to change over time. The type of future development at Union Pier, whether resident or commercial, will be driven by market demands.

"It will go fast at times and slow at times," Robertson said. "It may be 80 percent housing. It may not."

Jim Newsome, the SPA's chief executive, said the first order of business will be to find a new home for BMW's operations at Union Pier, which now mainly handles vehicles made in the Upstate for export. Talks are already under way, and a deal could be struck by the end of March, he said.

Newsome identified the SPA's North Charleston Terminal as one possible location for the automaker. He noted that Union Pier cannot accommodate the German company's port needs over the long run.

"We will take care of BMW," Newsome said. "They're a strategic partner. They're important to the port. They're important to the state."

He said the SPA could transfer its cruise operations to the new terminal site by mid-2012 at earliest. Newsome said the project likely would involve a public-private partnership but said it was too early to share any cost estimates.

The master plan comes after a series of community forums and feedback sessions with neighborhood groups and businesses. Charleston Mayor Joe Riley said the redevelopment would, in effect, extend Waterfront Park to the north. Any decisions based on the plan would change the city forever, he added.

"I think if you do a measurement of great cities around the world ... you measure the degree of community interest and engagement, and the higher that is, the greater the city," Riley said.

The proposed changes call for the removal of about 8 acres of existing dock space at Union Pier. The plan still allows for a single-berth cruise terminal that the SPA anticipates would handle no more than two 2,000-person ship calls a week.

After sharing key points from the master plan, officials split the audience into small groups for discussion and shared some of the feedback before wrapping up the meeting. Katie Zimmerman, a project manager with the Coastal Conservation League, said that portion of the program fell short.

"They really watered down the comments," said Zimmerman, whose group is pushing for written standards regarding cruise-ship emissions and waste disposal. "There were lots of concerns about traffic. There were several concerns about the type of business and concern that cruises degrade quality of life."

In moving BMW's operations, the master plan would reduce freight-train traffic in the area. It also considers closing a portion of Concord Street to non-cruise traffic during ship calls or using Washington Street as an alternate route to the terminal.

Mark Lang, store director of the Harris Teeter grocery store across from Union Pier, said congestion affects his customers but that aesthetics affect his future.

"From our business perspective, we're very excited the whole area is going to be developed," he said. "It's kind of an eyesore now. ... We're hoping to get a bigger, better store out of this."

Erin Mellen, president of Charleston Convention and Group Services, said the plan works better for departing tours she organizes from the cruise terminal but that older passengers might need shuttle service to reach the popular City Market area from the new embarkation site.

Planners with Robertson's firm, Cooper Robertson and Partners, spent time at Historic Charleston Foundation poring through archived documents and images from the waterfront over the centuries. The foundation's director, Kitty Robinson, said she appreciated that the team "came up with a concept plan that is so thoughtful of what they heard from the community."

For example, it considers using the Bennett Rice Mill facade -- a single side of brick building preserved in time behind Union Pier's fences -- as a backdrop for waterfront performances.

Elsewhere, a new park shown within the port property could house a pavilion showcasing the city's rich maritime history.

"It's incredibly interesting," said Robertson, whose "historical front door" comment stemmed from the fact that for centuries most Charleston visitors arrived on ships that tied up at the current Union Pier site.

The SPA agreed to pay Cooper Robertson about $1.3 million for its work. Officials will deliver an update at another community meeting in late spring.

John P. McDermott contributed to this report. Reach Allyson Bird at 937-5594 or abird@postandcourier.com.

[thelakelander]

Cruise terminal aside, the Charleston plan for this waterfront site is exactly what Jacksonville should do with the Shipyards and JEA sites.  Carve out your desired public space areas, expand the urban street grid and fill in the site with mixed-use development.  Btw, I'm glad to see the new plan incorporates the old Bennett Rice Mill facade as a central focal point of the site's proposed park.

[CS Foltz]

Gentlemen............something to consider would be "What to do with the dredging materials" if the Jaxport end of the St Johns is deepened? Perfect material to add area in that vicinity plus a "Cruise Terminal" could be installed in that area! This is something that has been in the back of my mind for quite some time but no one has mentioned this...........pilings driven and built upon and go from there! There really is no need to use Mayport other than Vescor is bound and determined to build in that region and after spending $10 Million Dollars it's obvious to me they want to build there............well let them build it with their money and not our tax dollars..........but thats just me! Mayport does not want a Cruise Terminal in their world and I can't blame them one bit!