Re-Envisioning Shipyards/Convention center

[tufsu1]

the only issue with going vertical is loading docks...because Philly put one of their exhibition halls on the second floor, they needed loading a dock up there...so there is a ramp extending a full block beyond the convention center to get to it.

How would we do that here?  Surely we wouldn't want bay Street to be a loading dock...maybe use a portion across from the Hyatt's loading docks....or maybe build a ramp on the Liberty Street side...as long as the Berkman residents approved.

[thelakelander]

Liberty Street would be perfect for a ramp with the existing sloping elevation.  As far as Berkman residents go, that should not be a major concern, considering all Berkman brings to that street is a parking garage entrance.  Nevertheless, it could be easily solved with good architectural screening.

[CS Foltz]

Why not a Freight Elevator of sufficient size to accomodate a vehicle sized load? Ramp would be cheaper but is eating up valuable ground level real estate or a roundy round drive up ramp that could be used for foot transportation when not being used for freight? If we are starting from scratch,something to consider1

[thelakelander]

From Liberty Street, it would not have to eat up anymore ground space than a regular loading area would.  Plus, you're going to need an area for service operations.  With the river, Hyatt and Bay Street on three sides, and Liberty being a straight shot to State & Union, the Liberty Street side would be best for those operations.

[CS Foltz]

lake..........makes sense, just exploring options since this will be a "Clean Sheet" start up and I want the most for my tax dollars not only in layout but options to select from!

[Jason]

Then leave the first floor for convention space and the 2nd and 3rd floors for parking.

I still think having an above grade view of the river from the third floor would be a great asset.

[tufsu1]

I think the answer Jason is to build a convention center on the block bounded by Liberty, market, Bay, and the river....and then build a garage behind the Hyatt (with ground floor retail on Bay) that could have another hotel or some other use above it.

[Jason]

That's a great idea as well.

[Captain Zissou]

Throughout this discussion, I have just been thinking about some of the boats at the boat show.  Those things are HUGE.  You'd need a bigggggg freight elevator for those.  So either first floor exhibition space, or big ramp.

Tufsu, I really like your idea. Just put deep enough bays in the garage facing Bay street for practical retail. We don't want another Everbank situation.

[JaxNative68]

i don't like the idea of loosing more existing building in downtown to build a convention center, and if you build on the courthouse site, that is exactly what will happen.  I vote for the shipyards site.  It is barren and can help promote the river.

[thelakelander]

There's nothing worth preserving about the existing courthouse and most of the site is a surface parking lot.  On the other hand, if you build a convention center at the Shipyards, other then being on the riverfront, it still fails because there is no attached hotel similar in size to the Hyatt.

[vicupstate]

If the city were to RPF the courthouse site, the buyer would likely demo the existing building, in order to get higher density out of the site.  It is nothing special,IMO. 

[brainstormer]

I guess I'm just assuming Jason can design whatever we want, right Jason? I think I brainstormed in some posts last year that an urban park on top of the new convention center would be really neat.  I'm sure part of it will be enclosed mechanical, but we need to make sure the new convention center becomes a destination on it's own without just being used during actual conventions.  A park-like setting on top of the center with views of the river and bridges would be an instant hit.  And what a great place to watch the fireworks!

If you are reading this Adam H. let's open up our taxpayer-funded public buildings to include citizen input on design.  Residents will take more ownership in our public buildings if they feel their opinions are valued and considered.  Allow people to make suggestions on what should be included in the convention center or ideas for look and design.  Think how much better the new courthouse and future trans. center would be if it hadn't been a behind closed doors design.  You know I'm right!

[stjr]

You could probably squeeze 350,000-400,000sf of exhibition space at the courthouse site.  We only need around 200,000.

Lake, I couldn't find the thread were we once before hashed out all the particulars of a convention center located at the courthouse site.  (Perhaps you could locate the link.)

But, I recall my concerns about the adequacy of the courthouse property to properly house a floor plate appropriate for an enlarged exhibit hall, food service facility, loading docks, storage and staging areas, and entry hall.  Also, the footprint you were counting on was "L" shaped as I recall and that doesn't jive with a quadrangular exhibit hall.  And, even with a street car line, the center will need quite a bit of parking to attract attendees and stage exhibitor trucks and vehicles that I think will exceed much of what the courthouse site can accommodate.

Sorry, but I support the stadium end of the shipyards site over the courthouse.  Proximity to our other public gathering areas, their existing parking lots, the marina at Metro Park, more area to build the convention center properly, and a chance to bridge from existing downtown, down the riverwalks, all the way to the stadium/arena/ballpark area.  Add a public riverfront park on the balance (western half) of the shipyards property and we are on our way.  Hotels can join the convention center on the eastern end and/or be built vertically over the center.  Use the courthouse site for more hotels, condos, office towers, etc.

P.S. Don't forget the courthouse site is in proximity to the City Jail and "Fort" JSO.

At a minimum, the city should  ask for RFP's for both sites and see how the submitted concepts compare.

[Charles Hunter]

Wasn't it the thought that development would "fill in" the space between downtown and the current convention center site?  We can see how well that's gone, and its been what, 20+ years?  I'm with Lake - use the current Court House / Annex site for a new convention center, and close Market Street (?) between the Hyatt/Annex block and the CH block.  As stated by others, parking could be above or below (or both) the exhibit hall - which could take up most of the block between Bay and the river.  Smaller meeting rooms and ancillary spaces could be on the leg of the "L" on the Annex site.