Panera on Main Street?

[thelakelander]

The Lakeland example would be comparable to completely taking out State and Union, in Jax.

Interesting idea. What would the negatives be? Seems Downtown workers heading north at day's end would have to use Bay St to 95 or take Main up to MLK, rather than cutting over on State. Traffic on 8th to 95 would increase. Have to create some other access route into/out of DT from Mathews Bridge. Gameday traffic could use MLK if it wanted to bypass DT (like current police routes cause). Sure there are more probs, but a very interesting idea...

In the Lakeland case, the one way pairs were converted back to two-way streets and lanes were taken out.  Today, you can still take them through downtown like before, but its been set up in a manner that really reduces vehicle speeds.  Those looking to speed through (they were not stopping anyway) changed their travel behavior by taking the bypass route that passes 1/2-mile north.  Applied to State & Union or even Main & Ocean, they could still be accessible from all points but designed to promote multimodal mobility (cars, transit, bike & ped) instead of just cars.  Its something that would definately be expensive (Lakeland's alternative route cost $61 million alone) but in terms of long term viability and connectivity between Springfield, Hogans Creek and DT, it would certainly be worth it (Judging from Lakeland's success after their highway conversion).  

Btw, I'll try and contact some of my old friends at the LEDC tomorrow and see if they have any "before" shots of downtown and those streets.  It would be an interesting case study.

[strider]

The reason there are not bike lanes is that it was felt parking was needed more (yes, the choice was bike lanes or parking) and, yes, the reason we could have parking and not the bike lanes was the residential streets paralleling Main.

As I and someone else said earlier, utilizing the alleys as bike paths would give us the best of both worlds.  Bike and walk paths, safety (additional lighting and traffic) and a reason for small drink shops and soft serve places, etc. in the back of some of the store fronts.  

Ok, I may be dreaming, but why not?

Yes, Lake, I agree that most of the chains will  not come due to some of the issues, but in places like Annapolis, the chains are there and let me tell you, driving anywhere in Annapolis is not fun.  But parking and walking is.  They have a large parking garage that is free just for that reason.

The medians are not going anywhere for probably decades. Work with them, around them and perhaps we can have something unique...which is one reason I think the alley idea is a good one.

[thelakelander]

Strider, Annapolis has decent density and foot traffic.  If and when Main Street gets those things, the medians won't be the issue they are today.

[strider]

  Lake: While I failed to say it, I thought it...yes, I realize the chains would be out in the future somewhere after we had proved to be a successful, walk-able commercial district.

So, clean and lighted alleys.  Marked bike paths so the walkers didn’t get run over.  Brick crosswalks at the side streets, possibly even walk, don’t walk lights to coincide with the traffic lights on the left turn blocks.   Some of the store fronts like the old Boomtown could have tables out back with the back entrance more used than the front.  Then, after dinner, walk down a couple of blocks and the back of the thrift store is open and you can go look around.  Down two more store fronts and the back third open to the alley is a cheap but good soft serve stand,  four flavors, two possible twist combinations ( I actually want to do this…).  Walk back behind the thrift store to the parking lot and drive home.

While some may dream to change the medians, it would be more likely that we could get funding for the alleys for the safety issues and the bike lanes than anything to change Main Street proper at this point.

[thelakelander]

^Very true.

[gatorback]

I drove down main this past week and yes, I imagine there's going to some collision when people are making U-Turns to find that spot out front, but let's face it. We would rather have people fending for spots on main then not.

I like the lay out. SO clean so nice. Rather would like a Light Rail running down the middle but looks like there is room no?

[strider]

Lake, if we had a solid, attractive and doable plan for the alleys and got commitments from the city to help with the parking issues, could that be used to help attract an "anchor" business, be it retail or restaurant or even institutional (thinking school/ college related rather than social services)?

[sheclown]

I like the back-door idea.  There's plenty of space behind some of the shops on Main and parking as well.  I could see it being tied to the alleys and promoted that way.  It opens up a whole new world especially to locals.

[thelakelander]

^If a city like Charlotte can convince an entire school to shut down campuses in two cities and relocate, its certainly possible with the right plan and roll out.  

Johnson & Wales plans Charlotte, N.C., campus (from 2002)

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The $82 million campus that Johnson & Wales University will open downtown here by 2004 eventually will become the second largest campus for the culinary and hospitality institution, following only J&W's original Providence, R.I., location in size.

J&W, which is based in Providence, plans to consolidate its campuses in Charleston, S.C., and Norfolk, Va., into the Charlotte location. Charleston, with more than 1,300 students, and Norfolk, with more than 600, eventually will close. J&W, however, plans to maintain a presence in those cities, most likely through continued student internships.

The university system's other campuses are in North Miami with about 1,700 students, Denver with 646 students and an information technology campus in Worcester, Mass., with 69 students. The Providence campus has more than 9,000 students, giving the entire system more than 13,600 students.

The Charlotte campus is expected to have more than 800 students enrolled by 2004 and should reach a student population of more than 2,800 by 2007. Employment is expected to reach 250 staff members and faculty.

While Charlotte officials and businesses heralded the addition of a major educational institution as an economic and cultural boon to the city's downtown, J&W administrators view the move as fitting to its role as a career university.

The campus, which will be the anchor in a commercial and residential development project called Gateway Village, will be in an urban setting and close to businesses where J&W students can fulfill their internship requirements and, one hopes, obtain jobs after graduation, officials said.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_26_36/ai_88268838/?tag=content;col1

Charlotte campus today

[CS Foltz]

City like Charlotte did convince........makes me wonder just what was offered either above or below the table! Some how I don't see Jacksonville offering anything that would interest much to anyone!

[tufsu1]

"It kinda boggles the mind that they're trying to rebuild Springfield as more pedestrian friendly but they didnt build in a bike lane. Thats just all kinds of dumb. Thankfully the road is pretty wide & so are the back streets, so its still pretty bike friendly, but still. It would've helped."

- Main Street is technically a federal highway (US-17, i beleive). they have restrictions on what can and can't be done.

Was one of those restrictions not being able to put in a bike lane?? At least in the historic part of Main.

no..they just chose on-street parking instead....but understand that FDOT will not build multi-lane undivided roadways anymore....and they're not even fond of the painted median turn lanes (suicide lane)

[PorchCats]

I lived two blocks from the Johnson & Wales campus in Charlotte's Third Ward for over 10 years.  When I moved into my townhouse in 1994, the area two blocks north was a residential area in serious disrepair, literally on the wrong side of the tracks from Uptown which was only six blocks away. Among the homes, there were drug houses, boarded up homes and apartment buildings, prostitutes, etc. (sound familiar?)  Incidentally, this area is not very far from the Wilmore area that I believe was the Charlotte neighborhood also featured in Southern Living...

In my opinion, there were two main events that brought the needed "ooomph!" to Third Ward's resurgence after years of trying. 

First, the NFL awarded a football team to Charlotte, and their nicely manicured practice fields ended up literally behind my home by the 1996 season. Today, one of J&Ws dorms sits next to one of the fields. And the new stadium was a five-block walk from my front door.

Second, Bank of America (I think NationsBank then?) built their large technology center that became the anchor to the blocks that now hold the J&W Campus and dorms. It took awhile, but J&W came in, and shops and restaurants, etc. followed.

One thing to note is that the neighborhood associations never stopped lobbying the governmental powers. There were proposals, plans, disagreements, power struggles, etc. but the groups simply didn't give up. We obviously have what seem like ridiculous fights in Springfield over the silliest of things, but I remember one particularly angry and ongoing (months!) "conversation" among Third Ward residents over whether or not we limit parking in the neighborhood during football games.

[CS Foltz]

PorchCats.............go to the other Springfield Thread when you get the chance! (Sparbarians)

[CS Foltz]

strider.............did a recon today down Main Street from the bottom, or City end, to 32nd St. Broke into the Papa Sierra Search Pattern..........parrell track pattern out 5 blocks east and west centered on Main St and I have to agree with your idea of using the "Alley's" as bike lanes has some merit! Most of that is open enough to use it in that manner and as long vehicle traffic does not cause issue's your good to go! About the only thing that I see that could cost money may be either road markings (as in paint) or signage (as in signs) I did make note of what "sheclown" was refering to about some of the stores having ample area in the back for acess as well as parking...........however not sure about the security aspect of having front and rear entry's! Not sure how you would approach the City about it other than involve Dr Johnny once you get some kinda of plan worked out!

[sheclown]

We've thought about it for the thrift store.  I think we could make it work.