Panera on Main Street?

[Ocklawaha]

Baymeadows Road has this same U-turn problem except I think it is far more dangerous- probably because there is much more traffic.  There are certain areas that have cut-outs so larger vehicles don't have to drive up on the curb.

"Jacksonville doesn't have traffic... we have congestion..." Mike Miller, JTA.  

OCKLAWAHA

[peestandingup]

It kinda boggles the mind that they're trying to rebuild Springfield as more pedestrian friendly but they didnt build in a bike lane. Thats just all kinds of dumb. Thankfully the road is pretty wide & so are the back streets, so its still pretty bike friendly, but still. It would've helped.

BTW, Im not sure about Panera in Spr. Dont get me wrong, I like Panera, but leave that stuff to the burbs. Seriously, start that & then before you know it you'll have a Starbucks, then a Moe's, & so on. You'll be crawling with yuppies & looking like the every other place in the burbs before you know it.

No, Spr needs local businesses that provide needed services but feel like part of the community, not faceless giant corporations. Some of that is OK & can be good, but the south in general really has an issue with "knowing when to say when" about that kinda thing.

[cindi]

the Amish faction in Springfield are NOT going to be happy.

[fsu813]

"It kinda boggles the mind that they're trying to rebuild Springfield as more pedestrian friendly but they didnt build in a bike lane. Thats just all kinds of dumb. Thankfully the road is pretty wide & so are the back streets, so its still pretty bike friendly, but still. It would've helped."

- Main Street is technically a federal highway (US-17, i beleive). they have restrictions on what can and can't be done.

[peestandingup]

"It kinda boggles the mind that they're trying to rebuild Springfield as more pedestrian friendly but they didnt build in a bike lane. Thats just all kinds of dumb. Thankfully the road is pretty wide & so are the back streets, so its still pretty bike friendly, but still. It would've helped."

- Main Street is technically a federal highway (US-17, i beleive). they have restrictions on what can and can't be done.

Was one of those restrictions not being able to put in a bike lane?? At least in the historic part of Main.

[fsu813]

I believe so.

[Springfield Girl]

Yes, Porch Cats is right, we have turning lanes at the intersections. I used the term u turn because others had. It is really much easier getting around Springfield than most other areas IMO and one of the reasons I like living here.
Lake, I understand the requirements that businesses look for when planning new locations but I also know they make many exceptions for historic districts. Springfield may not be there yet but we have tons of upside.
Last but not least, like FSU said, Main St is a federal highway. If I had the choice I would rather have the two lane street that it used to be but those days are long gone. We can't have it both ways. If we had the charm and walkability of the narrower street people would complain about the lack of density and traffic. It is what it is, we have to work within that framework.

[Dog Walker]

If you have anything wider than a two lane street, you really, really need a median of some sort if you want a community that it is safe to walk in.  Limiting the sight line with a treed median also tends to reduce the speeds of the cars on a multi-lane road.

[thelakelander]

If I had the choice I would rather have the two lane street that it used to be but those days are long gone. We can't have it both ways. If we had the charm and walkability of the narrower street people would complain about the lack of density and traffic. It is what it is, we have to work within that framework.

You put your imagination to it and you can do a lot of things.  What's described in this statement is pretty much what Lakeland had and removed from their downtown.  The change has been remarkable. 

DT Lakeland example from yesterday

Two more images from DT Lakeland.

Lemon Street Promenade

Ten years ago, Lemon Street was a wide one-way highway (Alt. US 92).  With coordinated new infill development, a reduction of street width, a conversion to single land two way traffic and completely eliminating sections of the highway, its now a linear park through the entire DT.





Aerial of Lake Mirror in 1994


Aerial in Lake Mirror Park in 2008


I've traveled a lot during my brief career but the transformation of Lemon Street from a major highway into a pedestrian friendly corridor is one of the most amazing things I have seen coming out of an urban area in Florida.  Even if we throw out San Francisco as an example, what will it take for Jax to progress to that type of level of visioning and implementing?

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7292.msg125278.html#msg125278

The Lakeland example would be comparable to completely taking out State and Union, in Jax.  In other words, it was something pretty significant that has forever altered the traffic flow in and out of that area, which has made it more walkable.

As for Main's medians and attracting chains, there are exceptions to every rule (as I mentioned earlier by using good foot traffic as an example) but Springfield is not there yet, historic status or not.  Maybe in five or ten years (looking at this economy) things may be different.

[ChriswUfGator]

Since you mentioned it, I've always felt State and Union should be elevated roadways through downtown, leaving the surface streets alone, and letting the traffic connecting from 95 to the bridges do its own thing without interrupting walkability or driveability down below.

[fsu813]

Lake always cites that as one of, if not the, biggest issues with connectivity downtown in his "Elements of Urbanism" series.

[zoo]

The Lakeland example would be comparable to completely taking out State and Union, in Jax.

Interesting idea. What would the negatives be? Seems Downtown workers heading north at day's end would have to use Bay St to 95 or take Main up to MLK, rather than cutting over on State. Traffic on 8th to 95 would increase. Have to create some other access route into/out of DT from Mathews Bridge. Gameday traffic could use MLK if it wanted to bypass DT (like current police routes cause). Sure there are more probs, but a very interesting idea...

[samiam]

Why not make the allys along main nice and use them as bike paths

[ChriswUfGator]

Lake always cites that as one of, if not the, biggest issues with connectivity downtown in his "Elements of Urbanism" series.

I need to go back to reading those. Things got real busy for me there for awhile.

But yeah, I think they should address State and Union with a separate elevated expressway, and also eliminate all one-way streets downtown (they made a step towards this recently), and also eliminate paid parking altogether. There are so many parking garages downtown that the market will take care of itself, as the people who work in offices can't take chances on hit-or-miss and taking 30 minutes to find a spot. So those folks will mostly will park in garages anyway. For the rest of us, it's throttling the downtown businesses.

A couple more idea; COJ should also get rid of the ridiculous signage restrictions, which have never been fairly enforced to begin with. Modis can have a (literally) 80ft-high lighted sign plastered on both sides of its building, but a small business can't put a sign up. Again, it's like they're determined to screw up downtown.

An opportunity has just dropped in COJ's lap with Vestcor kvetching about the cost of operating 11E and the Roosevelt. COJ has some real leverage. I'd work out a deal to restructure their loans, and to provide new mortgage financing for the projects I'm about to mention, on the condition they take over the Barnett and Laura trio and do something with them. That will clear two eyesores, and Vestcor isn't in much of a position to say "no" these days. Not like their construction business has a lot going on these days...

I think COJ should also take over the former JEA building from Hionedes and conglomerate their regional offices (like everything in that mess in a strip mall on Beach Boulevard, the stuff on Art Museum Drive, etc., they've got these offices all over town they opened as they needed space) into that building. Then it's 3 eyesores down, only 5,424,532,345 to go, but at least you got rid of the biggies.

[thelakelander]

Since you mentioned it, I've always felt State and Union should be elevated roadways through downtown, leaving the surface streets alone, and letting the traffic connecting from 95 to the bridges do its own thing without interrupting walkability or driveability down below.

Personally, I would not mind seeing State and Union altered like the Lakeland example (Lemon & Main Streets).  Lakeland got it done by pushing the construction of an "Intown (Downtown) Bypass" to divert major truck traffic that was severing their downtown's heart.  Looking at State & Union, we already have the MLK Parkway in place to serve as that "Intown Bypass."

State Road 548, the Lakeland In-Town Bypass, is a short six-lane arterial in Lakeland, opened in early 2004. It connects SR 35 (Florida Avenue) north of downtown to SR 35 and SR 600 (Bartow Road and Main Street) east of downtown, allowing traffic to bypass downtown.

SR 548 is signed, but only on reassurance signage. It is signed on street signs as Bartow Road, which is the name of its continuation along SR 35 at the east end.

In mid-2005, US 98 was rerouted onto SR 548.

There are plans to extend SR 548 west across SR 563 (Martin Luther King, Jr. Avenue) and SR 539 (Kathleen Road) to end at SR 600 (George Jenkins Boulevard) west of downtown. This will provide a full eastâ€"west bypass to supplement SR 546 (Memorial Boulevard) and SR 400 (Interstate 4).

This part just opened

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_State_Road_548