The Plaza at Town Center Entertainment Complex

[Ocklawaha]

rjp....land values there are still low enough that parking lots made much better financial sense than building garages....its pretty much a decision factor for all types of development.

Nice point, if it was a land use LAW factor, then the decisions would be made for environmentally sound development with mass transit, causing a seed change in our thinking.

OCKLAWAHA

[grimss]

Actually, I've driven through this development and thought it was better done than most.  They've got great graphic transparencies of shops full of goodies covering up all the vacant storefronts. 

Still, how many more restaurants does the Town Center need? What's the dining capacity of the places already there? Has to be nearing 7K or 8K.

[reednavy]

These places no where they're moving in to. The highest traffic shopping and dining area in the region, and until all the land is built on, they'll keep coming.

[mtraininjax]

BTW, if one was to "develop" a downtown, wouldn't that include roads that connect and mass transit? Not in Jacksonville.

Just got back from Denver where they have a very impressive transit system, and with it all, the light rail does not even go to the airport. First rate cities connect to the airport, after all, more people need transit to the airport. Until Jax builds dependable transit to the airport, don't expect anything great anywhere else.

Art Shad said it best about downtown, we need to Spend, Spend, Spend downtown and grow downtown. The amount being spent on SJTC and Downtown is not even comparable. At some point, when the traffic becomes too much of an issue at SJTC, I hope the patrons enjoy it.

[St. Auggie]

You guys are so funny.  EVERY thread has to turn into, "ok heres how we can do it down town". Why cant a thread ever bring up the positives about what this does bring to the city even if this is not in the core.  Applaud the developers for actually doing something, even if it is not where you want it. Baby steps.  I know half of you want the TownCenter to fail but it is a HUGE success.  Something this city NEEDED.  This could very well be another feather in its cap.

[tufsu1]

Just got back from Denver where they have a very impressive transit system, and with it all, the light rail does not even go to the airport. First rate cities connect to the airport, after all, more people need transit to the airport. Until Jax builds dependable transit to the airport, don't expect anything great anywhere else.

Might be because Denver's airport is like 25 miles from downtown....that said, their FasTrax plan does include rail to the airport.

btw, I can think of several major U.S. cities that don't have rail connections to their airports...New York comes to mind first.

[Duke]

You guys are so funny.  EVERY thread has to turn into, "ok heres how we can do it down town". Why cant a thread ever bring up the positives about what this does bring to the city even if this is not in the core.  Applaud the developers for actually doing something, even if it is not where you want it. Baby steps.  I know half of you want the TownCenter to fail but it is a HUGE success.  Something this city NEEDED.  This could very well be another feather in its cap.

I agree.  While more entertainment and retail options are desperately needed downtown, I am just glad that we're getting more options SOMEWHERE in town than not at all.  

The funny thing is, if more things like this were to pop up downtown and downtown miraculously became the mecca we all hoped for, then we would have nothing to talk about other than how much downtown sucks because parking is so expensive, traffic getting to downtown is bad, there are too many homeless people living in rail/metro stations...etc.  That's the beauty of this website I guess... there will never be a shortage of topics.  LOL.

[AbelH]

First rate cities connect to the airport, after all, more people need transit to the airport. Until Jax builds dependable transit to the airport, don't expect anything great anywhere else.

It's so simple. Why can't leaders see it?

[blizz01]

Seems to me that downtown has gained plenty of momentum on its own in spite of everything else - consider how many bars/nighttime venues that have either popped up or are about to.....In downtown.  In this economy. - I don't think that there's another area in North Florida that's run in tandem to date.  I for one am excited to have yet another "spot" - this city's big.

[midnightblackrx]

This IS a good thing for Jacksonville and a smart move by the developer to bring a couple chains to anchor the Markets.  I don't think the the Town Center's success has to be at the expense of developing a vibrant downtown or even related. This is a huge city and downtown nightlife isn't for everybody.

Blizz, you are right! Since I've lived DT in the last three years, I've seen a huge improvement in DT living....Just look at the sky-line of the Southbank (three new res towers), the Bay St Entertainment district taking off, the ArtWalk gets bigger every month it seems.  There is definitely somethings going down in Downtown and I'm happy to be a part of it...growing with it.

[Doctor_K]

Just got back from Denver where they have a very impressive transit system, and with it all, the light rail does not even go to the airport. First rate cities connect to the airport, after all, more people need transit to the airport. Until Jax builds dependable transit to the airport, don't expect anything great anywhere else.

Might be because Denver's airport is like 25 miles from downtown....that said, their FasTrax plan does include rail to the airport.

btw, I can think of several major U.S. cities that don't have rail connections to their airports...New York comes to mind first.

Subways, no?

[tufsu1]

nope...but they are building/planning rail links to LaGuardia and JFK (existing line is just off-site w/ shuttle)....and the Newark airport just got its connection to the downtown train station (PATH/NJT/Amtrak) a few years ago

[subro]

That is incorrect. You can take a subway from anywhere in Manhattan to Penn Station. You can take the LIRR from Penn to Jamaica Station and then take the Air Train from Jamaica directly to any terminal at JFK.

http://www.mta.info/mta/airtrain.htm

[mtraininjax]

Tufsu, dude you can take the train from DOWNTOWN NYC to Newark and Laguardia as well as JFK, great transit system in NYC. Not as modern a system, but hey, it works.

Great article on Penn Station and the 1,000+ trains it services each and every day in Trains Magazine.

[mtraininjax]

I know half of you want the TownCenter to fail but it is a HUGE success.  Something this city NEEDED.  This could very well be another feather in its cap.

This city needed more SPRAWL? The real feather in the cap when SJTC traffic approaches the density of Blanding Blvd southbound of I-295 on a Rush Hour. And we are not too far behind, given the traffic patterns from the holidays at the SJTC.

The only reason it is a HUGE success as you mention, is because the main stores around most of the major malls, Regency, OP, and Avenues, have failed and gone out of business, leaving older malls to fend for themselves. You put an Apple store in the Avenues, and it would be rocking too. Fact is that SJTC is just a mall, that is closer to the beach, to allow PVB patrons similar, albeit higher priced, options as those afforded to people on the southside with the Avenues Mall. Its newer, nicer, but in 20 years, it too will be washed up.