Misleading Petitions

[Springfielder]

Nobody called me about it either...and I'm in agreement, I don't believe that Dan would lie about being called about his stance on the car wash issue.

[Dan B]

I see no reason Dan B would lie, he is a SPAR member and knows a lot of people in that group. He has argued with me tooth and nail on here before, over SPAR issues. I think he's the last person who'd just make something up if it didn't really happen, especially on these issues.

So no, I don't think that statement is inaccurate at all.

I didn't say that Dan lied. He is a personal friend and I would never presume such a thing. What I am saying is that assumptions are being made that it was the SPAR office who called. When did he say that it was SPAR? If it was SPAR so be it, but can we at least make sure that is what he said before submitting it as a fact?

Facts, just use facts. That's all I'm asking.

And Dan, are you still a SPAR member? Didn't realize you had renewed.

I am not. I have not renewed since I left the board in 2008. I am still friends... or at least, friendly, with many of the board members, but I have not been a member since the Summer of 2008.

And no, I did not receive pressure from "SPAR", as much as people who thought I was wrong on the issue. I wont presume to know whom they are affiliated with.

I will admit a fairly heated debate with Louise on a number of issues, this one included, but I called her, not she I.

[CS Foltz]

Dan B...........I have to ask this and hope you will not take offence but I would like to know if your comfortable with answering...........why did you not renew your membership in SPAR?

[Dan B]

Dan B...........I have to ask this and hope you will not take offence but I would like to know if your comfortable with answering...........why did you not renew your membership in SPAR?

Initially it was an economic/health decision. This all occurred about the time my dad was diagnosed with cancer and my mom had a stroke in the Winter/Spring of 2008, subsequently, I had to spend a month in Maine with my mom. This was the biggest reason why I stepped down from the board.

I also was disillusioned with how the "executive committee" handled the rooming house issue. I was of the opinion that they agreed to the compromise without getting a vote from the board (At a minimum) or the membership (Ideally). Personally, I came to support the so-called "compromise", but I did not feel it was their decision to make without the rest of the board.  Also, I was the person who nominated Alex S to the board, so how that played out pissed me off, and lastly, the games that were played with the SPAR forums pissed me off. It was an issue at every single meeting for the almost three years I was on the board, and I just got sick of defending it to people who by-and-large, wouldn't post on it either way.

The latter issues alone would not have made me step down, but with my parents illnesses, I simply didnt have the energy to deal with the drama.

This was also about the time StephenDare! decided I was the bane of all evil, and spent the better part of the year trying to paint me as an evil, business ruining, lying, asshole.

All in all, 2008 was not a great year for me personally, and as a logical result SPAR become unimportant in the grander scheme of things.

I have not renewed since because I am not a fan of how many things have been handled.

[CS Foltz]

Dan B ..........much thanks for an honest answer! I can relate to parental health issues which with me would take precedence over just about everything also............a matter of prioritizing which is most important to anyone with family so I can understand! Hopefully things worked out for your parents but as to SPAR, that maybe a lost cause............undecided at this point! Time may prove just how things will eventually work out!

[strider]

FSU813, somehow, as this thread opened with the car wash issue and the fact that someone said that it was presented to them improperly, I thought you were offering that petition, not the one discussed at length.  I think you sort of misunderstood which petition was being discussed at this time, though I know the meeting petition was brought up later.

The petition Springfielder posted is still fraudulent.   It contains misleading information and I personally know that it was to be used against housing that is not a “Special use” as defined by the overlay.  Then add in the fact that it was indeed presented as a sign in sheet rather than a petition at that particular public meeting.  For the record, I when I heard what it was and it was handed to me, I simply moved the sheet from under the clip and made sure others behind me knew it was not a sign in sheet and to read it before signing.  It was all very poor form on Louise and Company’s part.  But, many things they do and say are.

Regardless, this thread was more about how someone did indeed go around and get some number of signatures using misleading information about the car wash.  To get back on subject, here’s my earlier comments:

Personally, I am more concerned of how the interpretation of the code was explained as it has been said many times by it's detractors that the overlay prevented the opening of intensive automotive uses and therefore the car wash was not allowed. Not a correct explanation. The overlay does not prevent the opening of a car wash.

This is the type of thing that concerns me. It is the same type of issue that has been brought forward against SPAR Council in the past and one that should not occur again. Even if ten of the names on the list were given misleading information, it should be corrected and the member who did it be prevented from doing it again.

From personal experience, it is the spreading of propaganda and misinformation on the part of SPAR Council and some of it’s supporters, that causes the biggest problems in this community and causes the riffs between the various groups. Misuse of petitions is simply one of the way this occurs.

[ChriswUfGator]

Dan B...........I have to ask this and hope you will not take offence but I would like to know if your comfortable with answering...........why did you not renew your membership in SPAR?

Initially it was an economic/health decision. This all occurred about the time my dad was diagnosed with cancer and my mom had a stroke in the Winter/Spring of 2008, subsequently, I had to spend a month in Maine with my mom. This was the biggest reason why I stepped down from the board.

I also was disillusioned with how the "executive committee" handled the rooming house issue. I was of the opinion that they agreed to the compromise without getting a vote from the board (At a minimum) or the membership (Ideally). Personally, I came to support the so-called "compromise", but I did not feel it was their decision to make without the rest of the board.  Also, I was the person who nominated Alex S to the board, so how that played out pissed me off, and lastly, the games that were played with the SPAR forums pissed me off. It was an issue at every single meeting for the almost three years I was on the board, and I just got sick of defending it to people who by-and-large, wouldn't post on it either way.

The latter issues alone would not have made me step down, but with my parents illnesses, I simply didnt have the energy to deal with the drama.

This was also about the time StephenDare! decided I was the bane of all evil, and spent the better part of the year trying to paint me as an evil, business ruining, lying, asshole.

All in all, 2008 was not a great year for me personally, and as a logical result SPAR become unimportant in the grander scheme of things.

I have not renewed since because I am not a fan of how many things have been handled.

I'm sorry to hear of your personal/family struggles, and understand completely. I've been there too, caring for a sick parent for an extended period of time, (Cerebral Aneurysm, Open Craniotomy, followed by an extended battle with a virulent MRSA infection, courtesy of medical malpractice). Mine thankfully made a full recovery, thank God. But it was a long and draining process, and a real eye opener, as the quality of medical care in this day and age is just not what it used to be. It's also a psychological mindfuck, no matter what your age, when the tables are turned and you find yourself caring for those who've always taken care of you. Brings the shortness, the preciousness, of all this, home to you. If you can survive that particular ordeal, you can survive anything. Sorry to get sappy. Just wanted to say I understand.

[fsu813]

i'm beginning to think the goal of the group of 6 is to simply maintain the negative press for as long as possible in hopes of hurting the organization one way or another.

that's the strategy.

a slow, constant, negative drumbeat to make people think twice about getting involved.

Sooner or later I wouldn't be surprised if someone within the organization decides to generate negative press about this group of 6 once a week, for months on end.

I'm quite impressed that they haven't lowered themselves to to that level yet.

Probably a good thing, in the end.

Anyone want to take bets on what the next negative thread will be:

A. "Unmarried couples unwelcome in Springfield?"

B. "Secret meeting between Spar, SRG, and Satan?"

C. "I didn't get my newsletter, therefore they are purposely trying to with hold information from me"

D. "Spar misspells word, error points to massive fraud & incompetence."

[strider]

Fsu813

To begin with, the negative press you talk about...odd, is it not, that it is all based on fact. So, if it is negative, it is actually the fault of SPAR Council.

Second, your postings are beginning to make it sound like you are getting desperate.

Odd, is it not, that many of these threads actually got started because Louise and Company has indeed been promoting "bad press" about a select few and various "undesirable" businesses. And has been doing it for years.

It does seem like your stategy is to continue to promote SPAR Council's misinformation, unlawful behavior and belittling ways. Good luck with all that.

[fsu813]

yes. all Spars fault. bad. evil. corrupt. conspiracy. curse upon the land. anything good that happens is despite them.

i know the drill by now.

"...Louise and Company has indeed been promoting "bad press" about a select few and various "undesirable" businesses..."

- yea. thier newsletters, public board meetings, and public group meetings are overrun with namecalling, accusations, hurtful rumors, personal insults, and are in large part concerned with destroying your reputation....just like MJ. Yup. You nailed it.

"...misinformation, unlawful behavior and belittling ways."

- is that supposed to be ironic?

[CS Foltz]

Glad to hear you admit it is all SPAR's fault...............been kinda obvious for quite some time!

[chris farley]

Do you know what is ironic Dan, there were some people who got lawyers pro bono (worked many hours) to fight it all tooth and nail to stay with the 300 square feet.  One person in particular was so angry at the compromise that SPAR was accused of giving in to the situation  and they SPAR were now responsible for any proliferation.  It is interesting the position these same people are now taking.  I was told "It is Louise DeSpain's fault that more houses will open"
I thought it was nessessary to work out a compromise to avoid a nasty situation, I did not realize that the SPAR board did it of their own volition, I do not think theey did.  There was a group willling to hire a lawyer to keep things from gettting messy..  I helped pay for the lawyer who drew it up, but I thought the compromise was worked out outside the city chambers, where one lady working on the compromise was loudly verbally attacked, by the people wishing for the 300 feet to stay.  It is a long and messy story, but there are people who keep changing sides, and who gets all the blame, no matter which side,  Louise and SPAR

[Dan B]

As I said, Chris, in the end, I agreed with the compromise. However, I believed it was an issue that should have been voted on by the board, before being brokered with Gaffneys office. It was not.

[chris farley]

Dan, I did not get too involved, I know I was tired of it all, but I was asked to contribute towards the lawyer, I believe Trautmann got hit with the largest portion.  (but the businesses in place agreed to the compromise they were then able to continue in place and I thought all was finished.)  Then I posted on the SPAR forum asking for donations and found out about the pro bono lawyers since I was contacted by them, somewhat upset that their work was for nought, it had been for free and now we were paying.  The same people who asked them for help have now flip flopped.  I wish I had known of the pro bono work, since I have great respect and admire the lawyers in volved.
No one is without blame in all of this but all the SPAR bashing is really terrible and everything keeps coming around to it.
I have not always agreed with things at SPAR as well you know but I am impressed that they keep on trying and I have never heard any name calling in spite of huge fabrications aimed at them.

[Stenodave]

Dan B.

What a self pitying crock.

You must not have had too bad a year, since you spent most of it slandering me to the neighborhood and spending endless days on this forum calling me a liar and and asshole because your business associate and friend Craig Van Horn decided to break contracts and steal me and Johns belongings.

It took a year to finally get our stuff back from the building after he finally lost it, and even then I had to get it from Kevin Gay.

Im sorry you have problems in your life.  I lost my dad and my grandmother in the same year, and you couldnt keep from calling me every name you could think of on a daily basis.

You are and have been a bully and in my opinion led the way at SPAR during your time there in the practice of bulllying those with whom you didnt agree.

Even now, you feel the need to drag my into you self pitying little screeds.

If you remember however, I repeatedly asked you to simply stay the hell out of the situation with Craig, as I did not believe you understood what was going on, and wasnt your business.

What a guy.

For the use of the word "Screed" I award you 10 points.  Not a word that works its way into many conversations.


Screed a lengthy piece of writing; a discourse or harangue.