Misleading Petitions

[Springfield Girl]

There were apparently several petitions but the only one that was taken to the hearing was mine. I had a copy of the zoning report and the letter from the chairman of the HPC staff attached for all to see. I informed people that there were petitions pro and con and that there were residents and non residents both for and against. I collected signatures over two days randomly by who I could find at home. I had a few people tell me they didn't care either way and I had a few people say they didn't mind a car wash and those folks didn't sign. You people trying to make something out of this are truly ridiculous. I went in person and everyone I talked to was able to look at the petition and see who had signed including phone numbers and email addresses which is more than I can say about the pro petition. I went to the site to see who was supporting the car wash and it didn't allow access to see who had signed that petition. This from people who are always screaming transparency. People will make up their own minds whether they will patronize the car wash once it is up and running.  The person Porch cats referenced collected a total of 13 signatures (two of which were this person and their spouse) which I attached to my 92.

[Dan B]

I wish Mr. Jones the best.  With that said, when he spoke at a SAMBA meeting in November, he mentioned the market he was after was much larger then Springfield.

Honestly, any business hoping to survive on Springfield residents alone is destined for failure. Someone keeps throwing the number of 5000 people in the neighborhood out there. That number is based off the 2000 census. I would be shocked if we have more than 3500. Its probably more in the neighborhood of 2500 residents.

Over the holidays between following santa around on the firetruck, and partaking in some caroling, it was a stark reminder of how empty our community is. There are places where there is density, but all in all, we have a bunch of broken teeth.

[Dan B]

There were apparently several petitions but the only one that was taken to the hearing was mine. I had a copy of the zoning report and the letter from the chairman of the HPC staff attached for all to see. I informed people that there were petitions pro and con and that there were residents and non residents both for and against. I collected signatures over two days randomly by who I could find at home. I had a few people tell me they didn't care either way and I had a few people say they didn't mind a car wash and those folks didn't sign. You people trying to make something out of this are truly ridiculous. I went in person and everyone I talked to was able to look at the petition and see who had signed including phone numbers and email addresses which is more than I can say about the pro petition. I went to the site to see who was supporting the car wash and it didn't allow access to see who had signed that petition. This from people who are always screaming transparency. People will make up their own minds whether they will patronize the car wash once it is up and running. 

In fairness SG, I believe the person who created the petition left it blind to protect the identity of those who signed it. Those of us who supported Silas got a number of phone calls.... telling us how wrong we were.  It was probably a good thing to leave it blind.

[Springfield Girl]

I wish Mr. Jones the best.  With that said, when he spoke at a SAMBA meeting in November, he mentioned the market he was after was much larger then Springfield.

Honestly, any business hoping to survive on Springfield residents alone is destined for failure. Someone keeps throwing the number of 5000 people in the neighborhood out there. That number is based off the 2000 census. I would be shocked if we have more than 3500. Its probably more in the neighborhood of 2500 residents.

Over the holidays between following santa around on the firetruck, and partaking in some caroling, it was a stark reminder of how empty our community is. There are places where there is density, but all in all, we have a bunch of broken teeth.

agreed.

[Springfield Girl]

There were apparently several petitions but the only one that was taken to the hearing was mine. I had a copy of the zoning report and the letter from the chairman of the HPC staff attached for all to see. I informed people that there were petitions pro and con and that there were residents and non residents both for and against. I collected signatures over two days randomly by who I could find at home. I had a few people tell me they didn't care either way and I had a few people say they didn't mind a car wash and those folks didn't sign. You people trying to make something out of this are truly ridiculous. I went in person and everyone I talked to was able to look at the petition and see who had signed including phone numbers and email addresses which is more than I can say about the pro petition. I went to the site to see who was supporting the car wash and it didn't allow access to see who had signed that petition. This from people who are always screaming transparency. People will make up their own minds whether they will patronize the car wash once it is up and running. 

In fairness SG, I believe the person who created the petition left it blind to protect the identity of those who signed it. Those of us who supported Silas got a number of phone calls.... telling us how wrong we were.  It was probably a good thing to leave it blind.

Believe me, I got flack also for not thinking a carwash was a great addition to the historic district. I still put it out there and stood by my opinion.

[PorchCats]

Since my post started this discussion, let me make a couple of fine points:

- I never said I read the petition. I said "At the beginning of the conversation I was told we needed to sign the petition to stop yet another convenience store coming into the neighborhood. I thought that clearly misleading."  So I can't say whether or not the petition itself was misleading. 

- Springfield Girl, who took 92 of the signatures, was NOT who stopped by our house. I wish it had been SG. I respect her very much and we occasionally have open conversations about hot topics like the car wash. Those conversations are enjoyable, good-natured and always about trying to find facts amongst all the noise.

- We did not sign the petition (I have always been in favor of letting Mr Jones open the car wash.)

[thelakelander]

I believe we all got a little flack, regardless of our positions.  I've received a couple of upset phone calls myself.  Nevertheless, I still feel I did the right thing with my participation and would do it again with no problem.

[PorchCats]

Since my post started this discussion, let me make a couple of fine points:

- I never said I read the petition. I said "At the beginning of the conversation I was told we needed to sign the petition to stop yet another convenience store coming into the neighborhood. I thought that clearly misleading."  So I can't say whether or not the petition itself was misleading. 

- Springfield Girl, who took 92 of the signatures, was NOT who stopped by our house. I wish it had been SG. I respect her very much and we occasionally have open conversations about hot topics like the car wash. Those conversations are enjoyable, good-natured and always about trying to find facts amongst all the noise.

- We did not sign the petition (I have always been in favor of letting Mr Jones open the car wash.)

...and I forgot to add the most important part - no one should ever blindly sign anything handed to them without reading it first. That's just not smart.

[CS Foltz]

PorchCats..........make perfect prudent sense to me.............no one should sign squat unless they read it first!

[thelakelander]

I wish Mr. Jones the best.  With that said, when he spoke at a SAMBA meeting in November, he mentioned the market he was after was much larger then Springfield.

Honestly, any business hoping to survive on Springfield residents alone is destined for failure. Someone keeps throwing the number of 5000 people in the neighborhood out there. That number is based off the 2000 census. I would be shocked if we have more than 3500. Its probably more in the neighborhood of 2500 residents.

Just looked up the 2000 census numbers for the neighborhood.  It had a population of 4,798 (census tracts 11 & 12).  I believe, during its heyday the population was over 8,000.  No wonder the commercial corridors are what they are today.  Anyway, there has been a lot of redevelopment and new infill since then.  Let's hope that it hasn't fallen below 4,000.  If its dropped to something like 2,500, its losing population faster than places like Detroit.

[PorchCats]

...and wash your cars every day.

Ms. Farley, you gave me a chuckle tonight.

True, though. I do plan to frequent the car wash as long as it does a decent job getting the dirt off...  maybe not every day... but... definitely more often than I wash the cars today!

[CS Foltz]

2500 people huh? SPAR can only get 100 signatures so I guess they truly represent the whole of Springfield right? If its 4000 people that shows even worse............so maybe SPAR is ready to return to the ashes inorder to be reborn..........again?

[Dan B]

I wish Mr. Jones the best.  With that said, when he spoke at a SAMBA meeting in November, he mentioned the market he was after was much larger then Springfield.

Honestly, any business hoping to survive on Springfield residents alone is destined for failure. Someone keeps throwing the number of 5000 people in the neighborhood out there. That number is based off the 2000 census. I would be shocked if we have more than 3500. Its probably more in the neighborhood of 2500 residents.

Just looked up the 2000 census numbers for the neighborhood.  It had a population of 4,798 (census tracts 11 & 12).  I believe, during its heyday the population was over 8,000.  No wonder the commercial corridors are what they are today.  Anyway, there has been a lot of redevelopment and new infill since then.  Let's hope that it hasn't fallen below 4,000.  If its dropped to something like 2,500, its losing population faster than places like Detroit.

That number is a complete guestimate.

But, if you think about the changes its not hard to do the math on a block for block basis. For instance in 2000 the house next door to me on one side was 6 efficiency apartments. It is now empty. The house on the otherside was a duplex. Its not a single family. There are 5 houses right behind me, all but one of which were chopped up and being used as multi-family, are now all single family, and frankly, were mostly empty until about 6 months ago.

The make up the community has changed both in racial make up, as well as density. Again, looking at my block, it is one of the more densely populated, with every house but one being lived in. At one point most were chopped up into duplexes, tri-plexes, and quads. Now, all but one are single family.

I may very well be wrong, but I am guessing we are closer to 2500, than 5000.

[Dan B]

2500 people huh? SPAR can only get 100 signatures so I guess they truly represent the whole of Springfield right? If its 4000 people that shows even worse............so maybe SPAR is ready to return to the ashes inorder to be reborn..........again?

Yawn. Seriously.

[Springfield Girl]

It must be really boring in Linkside. I just read the 5 page thread regarding an appeal to LUZ to tear down a bungalow in Riverside and CSFoltz has weighed in on the neighborhood and RAP on that thread.
I found it very interesting as they are carrying on the same arguments for and against RAP that we see here regarding SPAR. I would suggest anyone following the SPAR as savior/devil crap read some of it. It is the classic org saves neighborhood/org oversteps their boundaries and gets in peoples business debate. Goes to show you can't please everyone.