Someone should do a story on the homeless camp downtown

[kellypope]

Having lived DT for 6 years I don't see the problems with the homeless as a big deal.  This is my 'hood and they are my peeps.

Amen! Those who raise the stink are the ones who were raised in Mandarin, who never saw the homeless until they came downtown one night and got lost, well WELCOME to Downtown!

Thanks, I really appreciate that, being raised in Mandarin myself. Let's just assume all people from one area think exactly how we want them to--with very sheltered views, because, pfft, how could anyone from the suburbs ever see a homeless person in their life? How could they ever feel compassion?

[cityimrov]

I must not be communicating clearly. I have volunteered at homeless shelters, and also donate money and goods to some of these services. I myself have never been homeless, so won't pretend to understand how that feels, or anything else about the experience. What I do know is the situation is not healthy, not for the homeless people camping there, not for the students, not for anyone utilizing the city buses, and certainly not for a city trying to promote downtown. There has got to be a better way to not only provide some interim relief, but some long term solutions also. The whole situation is not fair to anyone, and IMO is a sad statement about the condition of our city.

Yes, something should be done but we have to be extremely careful in what we do.  The last thing I ever want to see is freedoms being taken away just because someone is "homeless".  Being homeless isn't fun.  Try it one day! For the most part, most of them are harmless.  Stinky, yes, but harmless.  True some are dangerous and give a threat but as someone here posted before - I had more dangerous situations where people in an expensive SUV nearly sideswiped me off the road.    

It's especially worse when people freak out and make it a crime.  There are quite a lot of cities out there that make homelessness essentially that - a crime.  I remeber an upscale city (beautiful place, wonderful streets, clean, etc) in California which had a gigantic foreclosures.  A large portion of the population suddenly found themselves homeless in a city which made sleeping in public areas illegal.  Ironically, it was probably those same people who demanded and voted for those laws.  Luckily for them, since their voting numbers were huge, the politicians created a law which opened up a parking lot for them to sleep in their cars.  

I would rather have my freedom and deal with homeless people then loose my freedoms and have a "perfect" city.  

[urbanlibertarian]

Good post, cityimrov.  Any government "solutions" for homelessness must respect individual freedom and responsibility.

[NotNow]

Government "solutions" seem to be fine as long as they involve food, shelter, medical and dental care, free personal hygiene items, family services, addiction counseling, and many other services.  God forbid we ask that the "homeless" quit defecating in our streets and stop intimidating downtown workers and visitors into giving up a few bucks.  We need to respect those "liberties"? 

We have every right to stop gatherings of anyone who trash our public places and choose to support addictions through aggressive panhandling.  There is shelter provided and we do NOT have to accept the kind of behavior that is occurring daily downtown.  To claim some kind of urban cool with bums peeing and crapping in the streets is just silly. 

Responsibility works both ways.  We have a responsibility to help those that NEED it, and folks have a responsibility to behave in a civil manner.  Those that cannot, whether due to addiction, mental health, or just plain antisocial attitudes, must be dealt with in an appropriate manner.  That would be medical help for addicts, mental health care for mental illness, and civil or criminal penalties for those that hold no respect or thoughtfulness for other human beings.

[Sportmotor]

We (entire family) were driving thru DT on Main last night, and being one car back from the light that had JUST turned green, this guy runs out from the curb and to the windows of the car in front of us. He drives off, we start to drive, and the same guy tries to jump on our hood to get us to stop!
Uh, NO. Hubby's all "DRIVE! STEP ON IT!", My son is screaming, and I'm just startled - I work DT every day, but that's the difference.
Night and Day, literally.

Good reason for you to go get a concealed weapons permit and take a safety and self defence course.

[urbanlibertarian]

NN, I agree that no one has the right to create a public nuisance and support prosecution of those that do.  However no one should be forced to receive mental health care unless they are a danger to themselves or others or forced to receive medical treatment unless they carry a contagious disease.

[NotNow]

I don't entirely disagree.  But I believe that if you have numbed yourself through drugs and/or alcohol so much that you crap yourself while sleeping on your usual park bench then you have a horrible disease.  If your mental health state requires you to wear plastic bags all over your body, dance in downtown traffic, or shake your wienie at the female workers trying to eat lunch, you have made the case that you are a danger to yourself or others.

[urbanlibertarian]

From Wikipedia:

The Florida Mental Health Act of 1971 is commonly known as the "Baker Act" in Florida. It was originally enacted, at least in part, because of widespread instances of elder abuse, in which one or more family members would have another family member committed in order to gain control over their estate prior to their death. Once committed, it was difficult for many of the patients to obtain representation, and they became warehoused until their death. The Florida State Hospital at Chattahoochee, Florida was notorious for housing many such patients.

The Baker Act allows for involuntary examination (what some call emergency or involuntary commitment). It can be initiated by judges, law enforcement officials, physicians or mental health professionals. There must be evidence that the person

    * a) has a mental illness (as defined in the Baker Act) and
    * b) is a harm to self, harm to others, or self neglectful (as defined in the Baker Act).

Examinations may last up to 72 hours and occur in 100+ Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF; originally Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services, or HRS) designated receiving facilities statewide.

There are many possible outcomes following examination of the patient. This includes the release of the individual to the community (or other community placement), a petition for involuntary inpatient placement (what some call civil commitment), involuntary outpatient placement (what some call outpatient commitment or assisted treatment orders), or voluntary treatment (if the person is competent to consent to voluntary treatment and consents to voluntary treatment). The involuntary outpatient placement language in the Baker Act took effect in 2005.

The act was named for a Florida state representative, Maxine Baker, who had a strong interest in mental health issues, served as chair of a House Committee on mental health, and was the sponsor of the bill.

The nickname of the legislation has led to the term "Baker Act" as a transitive verb, and "Baker Acted" as an intransitive verb, for invoking the Act to force an individual's commitment.

[tufsu1]

We (entire family) were driving thru DT on Main last night, and being one car back from the light that had JUST turned green, this guy runs out from the curb and to the windows of the car in front of us. He drives off, we start to drive, and the same guy tries to jump on our hood to get us to stop!
Uh, NO. Hubby's all "DRIVE! STEP ON IT!", My son is screaming, and I'm just startled - I work DT every day, but that's the difference.
Night and Day, literally.

yet I live downtown...have driven many a night down here...and never had anything like this happen

[Springfield Girl]

I have said for years that social service orgs needed to change the way they do business or risk the general population turning their backs on the "homeless". If the online responses to news stories, the letters to the editor and the TU rants are any indication, my belief seems to be coming to fruition. Government and social service orgs have allowed the problems to become so rampant that many citizens are just disgusted and fed up. People in the povery business do not want to separate the criminal, addicted and ill from the "down on their luck" because they can apply for more funding with larger numbers. It seems that the more we give, the more money we throw at the problem, the worse it gets. People feel good when throwing food and clothing at at these idividuals but do little to solve the real issues. Why DO shelters throw people out during the day. What good are these structures when sitting empty all day? Why do we continue to feed and cloth people with out any plan to stop the cycle. The only way anyone can gain self esteem is by being productive. We need to ask for something in return for the food, clothing or shelter or it will never be appreciated. We can all remember the lesson of having to spend our own money for something rather than being given the item by our parents. The system is broken and needs to be fixed now. 

[mtraininjax]

Government cannot fix this issue. Solutions will have to come from the private sector, and right now the private sector is in the midst of the Great Recession. I would not put stock in anything being resolved until 2011 or 2012 at the earliest. Could be a great campaign issue, if it is made to be one.

[Dog Walker]

I think that there is a point where "helping" becomes "enabling"; as in buying your alcoholic brother more booze or giving him money to do so.  I also think that we as a city are way over into the enabling side.  Even the word "homeless" is a fuzz word to cover the fact that most of them are without a permanent place to live by choices they have made and continue to make over and over.

During WWI, the French developed a concept called "triage"; dividing in thirds, for deciding how to treat the wounded.  Top third were lightly wounded that would recover with minimal help and treatment.  Bottom third were probably going to die no matter how much you helped.  Middle third was group that was going to die without treatment, but that could be saved with treatment so that's where most of the resources were put.

We need to do the same here.

[Springfield Girl]

I think that there is a point where "helping" becomes "enabling"; as in buying your alcoholic brother more booze or giving him money to do so.  I also think that we as a city are way over into the enabling side.  Even the word "homeless" is a fuzz word to cover the fact that most of them are without a permanent place to live by choices they have made and continue to make over and over.

During WWI, the French developed a concept called "triage"; dividing in thirds, for deciding how to treat the wounded.  Top third were lightly wounded that would recover with minimal help and treatment.  Bottom third were probably going to die no matter how much you helped.  Middle third was group that was going to die without treatment, but that could be saved with treatment so that's where most of the resources were put.

We need to do the same here.

This makes so much sense and would be a great start. Right now in our society, no one will make the tough decisions. There's no personal responsibility, only excuses.

[JaxByDefault]

It looks like the city has decided to remove the homeless camp from downtown.

Homeless chased away; Jacksonville shelter fined

City Rescue Mission says it had no warning of the city's roundup, citation

By Deirdre ConnerStory updated at 12:27 PM on Friday, Jan. 29, 2010EMAILPRINTBLOG THISCOMMENTBuzz up!    

Homeless people sleeping near Jacksonville's City Rescue Mission were rounded up Wednesday and Thursday night, and the mission itself has been cited for garbage left on the sidewalks outside its fence.

The mission says it was blindsided by the city's actions, because the few dozen people who sleep outside the mission's New Life Inn, which has been full for months and has seen a 33 percent increase in demand, have been doing so for a long time.

"Rarely from time to time, police would come by and ask them to move on, but never with the kind of intensity that we've seen recently," said Bill Duguid, City Rescue Mission's chief operating officer. "There seems to be a concerted effort at this point to remove people from Julia Street."

Duguid said that some of the "trash" on the sidewalk was actually the personal belongings of homeless people. He said many of the people who slept near the shelter said they did so because they saw it as a "safe zone" where they would not fear violence.

For the last two nights, though, the people who couldn't get a spot at a shelter have been roused in the middle of the night. They were told to keep moving and that they could not linger on the sidewalk near the mission â€" except in the afternoons, when lining up for shelter intake and the evening meal, Duguid said.

The city's citation noted "garbage, trash, rubbish and/or debris." If the mission does not "terminate the conditions" or appeal, it will get a special assessment or lien, but the citation does not say what the amount would be.

Duguid said authorities did not contact the mission in advance, and it wasn't sure what to do to remedy the situation. No one at the mission could remember it previously having been fined by the city for a similar infraction.

"We feel like we’re part of the solution, not part of the problem," he said. "If we weren’t there, there would be 300 more people on the streets of Jacksonville."

The actions come just days after Mayor John Peyton's pledge to do more to remove homeless people from the streets of downtown in anticipation of renovations to Laura Street.

Phone messages left for the mayor's office and sheriff's office have not yet been returned.

http://jacksonville.com/news/2010-01-29/story/homeless_chased_away_jacksonville_shelter_fined

[mtraininjax]

JSO's new motto : Cleaning up downtown Jacksonville one homeless camp at a time.