Bus Shelter Advertising Debate headed to City Council

[cline]

But, if you took the time to hear why people where opposed, you would realize there is a serious concern raised by expert attorneys that bus shelter advertising could open the door for the return of billboards in Jax.  You may not care, but many of us who do, remember how ugly the city became, overrun by these and other signs.

So what about other cities that have bus shelters with advertising on them?  Are they overrun with billboards as well? 

other than with regards to funding mechanisms

That's a big "other".

[tufsu1]

But, if you took the time to hear why people where opposed, you would realize there is a serious concern raised by expert attorneys that bus shelter advertising could open the door for the return of billboards in Jax.  You may not care, but many of us who do, remember how ugly the city became, overrun by these and other signs.

So what about other cities that have bus shelters with advertising on them?  Are they overrun with billboards as well?  

the short answer...NO!

I grew up in the Baltimore-Washington area....plenty of bus shelter ads, very few billboards.

As for the CS question regarding maintenance, JTA has provided the #...they say it costs around $850 per year to maintain each shelter (and those are ones without power/heat)....in the future, the shelters would be maintained by the ad company (the deal is for installation and maintenance).

[stjr]

So what about other cities that have bus shelters with advertising on them?  Are they overrun with billboards as well?

Cline, my understanding is that Jax is a national leader in controlling billboards and other communities have looked to us for an example. Billboards in Jax are BANNED with the exception of those grandfathered in.  As they disappear, they cannot be replaced, so, one day, we could be completely free of billboards.  

The concerns about billboards are being raised by attorneys considered national experts in this area of law.  JTA's attorneys have no such expertise but claim to know what they are talking about anyway.

"Overrun" is a relative and subjective term.  If the billboard was looking down on your house, it may be the only billboard, but I bet you would have reached your "limit".

[cline]

other communities have looked to us for an example

I'd like to hear the names of these communities.

Billboards in Jax are BANNED with the exception of those grandfathered in.  As they disappear, they cannot be replaced, so, one day, we could be completely free of billboards.  

In theory this is how it supposed to be, in practice it is not always the case.  A few months ago Folio talked about this and discovered the some of the Billboard companies (I believe the example was Clear Channel) actually stealthily go out and repair billboards that are damaged or falling down- even though this is against the law.  There is not always strict enforcement.

[CS Foltz]

tufsu...thanks for the information! $850 per shelter seems high to me, just off the top of my head! Is this a figure they will stay with or just a responce to all of the inquiry"s? Is this a yearly figure,quarterly or monthly?

[stjr]

FYI, here is a recent LA Times article showing that billboard ads versus other exceptions such as bus shelters is currently at a split decision pending appeals in the Federal Courts.  Until appeals play out at the Supreme Court level, this is the legal hazard, as I understand it, that concerns those attorneys, etc. opposing JTA's plans.

U.S. court upholds L.A. ban on billboards

The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling
January 07, 2009|David Zahniser and Phil Willon

A federal appellate court issued a ruling Tuesday upholding Los Angeles' citywide billboard ban, handing a rare victory to the city in its uphill battle to regulate outdoor signs.

The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said the city's 2002 outdoor advertising ban does not violate a sign company's 1st Amendment right to free speech, reversing a lower-court ruling.

Outdoor advertising company Metro Lights LLC had argued that the city could not prohibit new "off-site" signs -- images that advertise products not sold on the immediate property -- while at the same time selling advertising space on city-owned bus benches and kiosks. Metro Lights had accused the city of auctioning off "1st Amendment rights to the highest bidder."

....Last year, a federal judge sided with World Wide Rush, a firm that argued that the city cannot ban billboards while allowing certain exceptions, such as a zoning district near Staples Center that permits outdoor signs. That ruling, which is on appeal, still prohibits the city from enforcing its 2002 billboard ban.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/07/local/me-billboard7

Also, found this AP article summarizing Jax's fight to ban billboards in 1987:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1347&dat=19870604&id=LskSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=k_sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6826,1252867

[tufsu1]

tufsu...thanks for the information! $850 per shelter seems high to me, just off the top of my head! Is this a figure they will stay with or just a responce to all of the inquiry"s? Is this a yearly figure,quarterly or monthly?

the figure comes from the article on Page 8 of the thread....says JTA pays $280,000 annually for the 350 existing shelters....so, oops, that's $800 per year for each shelter....still doesn't seem high to me....remember there's trash collection, lawn maintenance, inspections, etc.

[CS Foltz]

So there is 350 shelters taken care of at an annual cost of $279,500 (I cheated broke out a calculator.....toes are too cold to use)...........I assume this is a JTA maintenance crew doing this work or is this sub'd out?

[stjr]

...remember there's trash collection, lawn maintenance, inspections, etc.

All of this could be done by the regular clean up crews that do road maintenance.  No need for a separate crew.  Marginal costs: Near zero.

The only legit costs would be to repair or paint metal and I doubt that would be needed very often if this is commercial grade outdoor equipment.  Marginal costs: Again, not much.

Add that JTA doesn't effectively maintain the $ky-high-way stations per MJ posts, I doubt that the shelters, even when they need attention, will get any.  Marginal costs:  Again, not much.

So what's the big deal?

[urbanlibertarian]

I  billboards!  They are a great means of communication of businesses to potential customers, especially the ones stuck in traffic.  We need more commercial activity, not less and advertising helps increase commercial activity.  It's a beautiful thing!

[mtraininjax]

If JTA can find a new source of revenue, I am all for bringing Gold Club ads to my backyard!

[CS Foltz]

I think we need to make sure that JTA manages what they now efficiently before we consider giving them anything more!

[Solaron]

Easy ways to pay for bus shelters:

The shelters could be purchased on credit and paid off over a period of years from advertising income.

JTA can buy the shelters and use them to advertise their own services especially the bus service. They could display maps and schedules. They could show pictures of glamourous people riding the buses or local politicians happily waiting for the bus on their way to work. This will convince people to stop driving and ride the bus.

JTA can rent or sell the the shelters to advertisers who will be responsible for maintainance. 

The shelters can be placed near Churches where they are needed anyway.  The church can advertise their services and schedule and events and spread the Good Word with inspirational messages.  This will also prevent  underwear ads in front of Jacksonville churches.

Fraternal organizations like  Kawanis Rotary, Elks,  Masons, Knights of Columbus, non-profit organizations like United Way or Red Cross can have income from selling advertising space.

Movie theaters, factories, large companies, malls and shopping centers all have something to communicate to everyone in their vicinity.   Most of all, making travel to their location comfortable convenenient and economical is a benefit worth any price.

It is the business of advertising agencies to own shelters and sell advertizing.  You can ask advertising companies to install whatever kind of shelter you want.
Here are Bus Stop Shelters that pay for themselves. http://www.sundialenergy.com/se_css_pages/product_bus_shelt.htm
They have a solar powered lighting system that comes on after dark and illuminated billboards for advertising revenue. The billboards are visible every day to all passing traffic in both directions and the waiting passengers read the message over and over conciously and unconciously.
After the income from advertising pays for the shelter, every bus stop becomes a steady source of revenue.
The passengers, especially women will be more secure after sunset waiting for the bus in a well lighted place. These shelters are essential for rural bus stops or anywhere there is no convenient power source.
If passengers can travel in comfort and luxury, they will prefer not to drive. So don't leave the passengers in the dark, or the hot sun, or out in the rain.

[CS Foltz]

Solaron.....I agree! There are alot of things that JTA could do but in their infinite wisdom will not! They are more concerned about "Gold Plated" Transportation Center and concrete than they are about fullfilling their mandate! What you have outlined is some of the things that have been discussed here but one more voice is more than welcomed!

[JeffreyS]

Looking at the ads I see on busses the JTA seems to keep the ads tasteful. I do think they may have had some hooters ads once.