Is Springfield Ready for a Car Wash?

[fsu813]

Lake,

You talk to some of the SPAR board semi-regularly, have you given them your opinion of the precedent issue?

Do you know why they think it will make a difference in precedent?

I mean, your a smart guy and know all about these issues, they have smart people that are familar with these issues as well......why 2 different opinions on if precedent will be affected?

[Dan B]

^ One is knee jerk, the other one isnt.

[thelakelander]

fsu813, everyone I've discussed this issue with knows my position.  As the former SAMBA Vice President I'm always a proponent of new market rate projects coming into the neighborhood.  Since learning the project's details and meeting the owner at a few SAMBA meetings, I think it would be better for that area than the current site conditions.

On the flip side, I do think it hurts the corridor's potential if we fight and keep viable legal businesses from opening because a few people don't want it.  Main Street could easily gain a reputation as a place where its not worth trying to open up a business because of the added trouble.

Do you know why they think it will make a difference in precedent?

I mean, your a smart guy and know all about these issues, they have smart people that are familar with these issues as well......why 2 different opinions on if precedent will be affected?

As Dan B stated, its a knee jerk reaction based on bad upfront information about the project and the owner.  This happens when poor communication between parties is rampant.  However, I'd add ignorance on understanding zoning, as well.  You can be smart and mean well and still not understand or grasp something outside of your field.  I can tell you how to put a house together and navigate the zoning code but I have no idea of what Lunican does to keep this site up and running on a regular basis.  Claiming allowing a car wash to open in a car wash facility (that's zoned for it) as setting precedent would be like me telling Lunican what he should or should not be doing with this website's development.

[fsu813]

Good explanation, thanks Lake.

I hope both parties have/can openly communicate before the hearing.

[Debbie Thompson]

I would feel better about the car wash if the entrance was on Main Street.  West 4th Street in front of the car wash is one of only a couple of remaining brick streets in Springfield.  Ingress and egress from Main Street would keep traffic off of our endangered brick street.  The location, off Main on the same block as some of our oldest houses (late 1800s), and on a brick street, is my issue, not the car wash.

I'd rather see a car wash somewhere else, but if the access was from Main instead of West 4th, I'd feel better about it.

[mtraininjax]

I'm ready for another pawn shop on Main street.

[strider]

The sad truth is that in today's economic conditions, Pawn shops are struggling.  Springfield should be very glad it has a few left (without them, Main Street would have been all but barren for years) and that someone is willing to open a nice car wash on Main Street.

As to that remaining brick street, it is destined to go away anyway. Since I've been in Springfield, it has lost about 30 to 40% more brick as repairs are made.  In one case I was involved with, they dug the street up, made the connections and nicely repaired the brick.  Then came back and paved over the repair.

To be honest, save an all but lost brick street or save the commercial corridor?  With a successful commercial district, perhaps someday we can get new brick streets.

[stjr]

I don't live in Springfield so I have no position.  My comments come as a neutral observer.

I do question how the City led this investor along without telling him he had another hoop to jump through.  According to his letter, he was given a "zoning exception", "Certificate of Appropriateness" (Which, as I recall, actually applies to concurrency, not zoning.  If correct, the name is misleading to the "amateur" developer and it should be renamed as a "Certificate of Concurrency".), and building permits.  The zoning exception and building permits would appear to confer official approval by the City of permission to  build and operate a car wash.  If so, it appears the City may be the villain here if they were inconsistent in their position over time.

I would think to get the zoning exception, if properly done, he would have had to post the "orange" hearing signs and notified surrounding property owners.  If so, where was the opposition at that time?  If he didn't do this properly, he may have invalidated the process.

Conversely, if he spent money on renovations without having all his approvals nailed down or completed, that would have been a foolhardy move to make on his part.   Still begs the question how he got valid building permits because my experience is they aren't issued unless Planning & Development have signed off on the zoning being correct for the use.

From either side, I really don't understand how the zoning issue is still unresolved AFTER he has already spent so much money.  Seems someone misstepped somewhere.

As to the Planning Commission, based on my experience, it's a developer friendly group (given that its members frequently make a living off of development), so if this is a tossup, my bet is he gets what he wants even if a thousand people show up to oppose it.

[fsu813]

Debbie,

I agree. If it were the "Main Street Car Wash" there would be less concerns.

Strider,

Wow. Never thought i'd hear "it is destined to go away anyway" coming from you about a historic, unique aspect of the neighborhood. That kinda rationale could get you accused of wanting to tear up heritage for the sake of convenience (ring a bell?). I agree with you though, the brick street shouldn't prevent a business from operating at the site, even one that generates more car traffic.

Also, "save a brick street or save Main Street" is a false choice, i think you'd agree.

[strider]

FSU813, let me rephrase it a bit.  In the scheme of things, using saving a brick street that the city has been pretty successfully making go away through the years to prevent the car wash from opening is pretty lame.

Would I be in favor of redoing Fourth Street as a real brick street?  Yes.  Would I prefer that Fourth Street not be a mismatch of brick and pavement?  Yes.  Do I think the car wash is going to hurt the little brick that remains on that part of 4th street?  No.  Is having the car wash open going to hurt the chances of ever getting fourth street fixed and fixed properly?  No.  Do I think a brick street is more important than even just one more viable business on or close to Main Street?  No.

In some ways, Fourth Street has been a "watch what you wish for" kind of thing.  People have fought with the city through the years to "save the brick street".  The city has fought through the years to just pave it over because "it is too costly to repave with real brick."  Now we have this wash board of a street that looks horrible as it a mismatch of things. It does still prove we once had brick streets but only really serves to slow cars down. Yes, it is nice to have a brick street, but I would let the majority of those who live on the street make the decision to pave it over or let it remain as it is if and when it comes time again to make that choice.  

[uptowngirl]

I cannot wait for the car wash to open! I, like Dan, hope they serve Three layer's coffee that I can sip on while I get may car cleaned three blocks from my house. As for saving historic brick streets, I am all over that....get the city to pull the bricks up, sell them to residents that can incorporate them in their properties and get a paved road. When is the last time anyone who does not live on those streets drove down them? I know I can't, I bottom out due to the GIANT sink holes up and down them. If the city agrees to restore the brick streets that is awesome (no issue on either side), if the city refuses to restore those brick streets then what is the point of keeping non-functional streets? This is not England and we do not need a folly on our "estate" for the amusement of a few. :-)

[CS Foltz]

Well Car Wash or Skin Club..........take your pick! I would opt for the Car Wash! Permitting not with standing, if they have got this far, either the City dropped the ball or SPAR did not realize just what was going on till it was allmost too late! Gee..........with all of the eyeballs around there, makes me wonder why Louise has not shown up and started jumping up and down in someones face!

[Omarvelous09]

I don't see what the big deal is...that car wash would be a good thing. although there are homes behind it...its still in a commercial area. I hate to say it, but people assume its going to turn into some drug hot bed, or some "ghetto" hang out. People avoid the real issue when it comes to springfield...i guarantee you that if it was a "Charles & Georges" folks would be singing a different tune. There's always an underlying truth behind all the smoke people blow.   

[Hallway]

How long is a letter of exception good for? This project took 12 years to get to the point where the owner felt he was about to have a Grand Opening per his letter Dec 7, 2009. The owners letter claimed he was going to open in 2 days, July 20, 2007 after he received the letter of violations on July 18, 2007. That facility was not and still isn't in any condition to open for business. Why would you spend over $700,000 without having all paperwork and pulling the proper permits? Let's also not forget that this is rented land. He does not own the property. I walked over to the facility to get a look at it. All I saw was an old building and a large cold dog, a white Chow Chow, chained up inside. He had a large bowl of food and large bowl of water, not very clean looking. No heat and no blankets for him to nest in and stay warm that I could see. We have a great hand wash car wash facility on Main and East 5th. Clearly this property has been grandfathered in. This business owner just survived the Main Street construction and has been washing my cars going on 5 years. Why don't we support his business with the same passion? I live in Springfield and I don't think we need another car wash. Any business owner knows they have to have all paperwork complete and a good business plan before investing any money into a business especially a start up like this. What if a retired fireman wanted to build a very nice used car dealer only having high end used vehicles with a nice seating area and free 3 Layer Coffee? What if a retired police officer wanted to build a new pawn shop with a beautiful facade. A great building catering to only nice appliances offering sandwiches from City Kidz and Uptown? When you give an exception to any land use & zoning you walk a slippery slope.

[cindi]

I walked over to the facility to get a look at it. All I saw was an old building and a large cold dog, a white Chow Chow, chained up inside. He had a large bowl of food and large bowl of water, not very clean looking. No heat and no blankets for him to nest in and stay warm that I could see. 

when was this?