A Closer Look at the Transportation Center

[CS Foltz]

Ock, if you've been on line searching for structural info on an operating Federal Reserve Bank, I'll bet you're gonna be on a few more "watch lists" than you already are.

Ock...............I have to add same! Not sure how to go about it, but will give it a shot! If you saw it being built......were there columns on the floors? Thick walls don't mean much, but if it was a post tensioned cable structure, there would not be many columns or there maybe none at all! If there is none then flat floors, no columns, weight limit each floor would be substancial!

[stjr]

I haven't been in the current Federal Reserve Bank building here but did watch it get built.  It is all concrete and heavy rebar and, based on how long it took to build, it was made to withstand any assault on it.

I did have the "pleasure" once of visiting the old branch, now the City's emergency operations center.  That building, built in the 30's or 40's by my estimate, had a multistory hardened "core" that contained all the operations of the "bank".  The interior entry door to the "core" was essentially a multi-foot thick bank vault door.  The building guards stood with machine guns (this was over 35 years ago!) and the elevators where heavy steel plated.  You could have had a shoot out in the elevator and no one would have known   .  Armored trucks entered through an equally secured underground garage.  No visitor moved about the building without an armed escort and under the watchful eyes of cameras everywhere.

Given that these buildings likely hold hundreds of millions or more in cash at a time, they are mini-Ft. Knoxes.  As such, I am sure the current Fed building here can handle any new uses we come up with.     I have to say, I am surprised that the Feds are willing to share the facility by subleasing space in it but perhaps the current design segregates office space from the cash vault more completely (i.e. like two distinct buildings side by side).

[mtraininjax]

As checks a phased out more and more, the Fed will and could vacate that building. One of my good friends was #3 in charge at the Fed and then moved to a local bank. They used to process millions of checks, and then outsourced the work to BofA who could do it for less than themselves. They could easily move to the old Fed building or even open up next to the FBI along Gate. Their building along the tracks was built with the Oklahoma Bombing standards for Fed buildings, it is built to withstand that kind of blast from outside.

[stjr]

As checks a phased out more and more, the Fed will and could vacate that building. One of my good friends was #3 in charge at the Fed and then moved to a local bank. They used to process millions of checks, and then outsourced the work to BofA who could do it for less than themselves. They could easily move to the old Fed building or even open up next to the FBI along Gate. Their building along the tracks was built with the Oklahoma Bombing standards for Fed buildings, it is built to withstand that kind of blast from outside.

Mtrain, per the City records, this building was completed in 1987.  The Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995.  That would take more foresight than I think even the Federal Reserve Bank's economists could muster.    It is actually our Federal Courthouse that was built to post-OK City standards.  If this building meets them, I think it would be a mere coincidence.  They did add those "car-sized" concrete "planters" in front after OK City.

I don't see the Federal Reserve leaving this building since it was very expensively built to their unique specs unless they (1) leave Jax entirely or (2) completely abandon servicing currency (taking your word they no longer do any checks) here and only maintain an admin office of some sort.

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, if you've been online searching for structural info on an operating Federal Reserve Bank, I'll bet you're gonna be on a few more "watch lists" than you already are.

Who me? I'm just an old hippie, expatriate, childhood moonshiner, pharmaceutical testing, Timothy Leary devotee, and unreconstructed Confederate, that had dinner with M-19 in an Andean Villa...

Why would anyone want to watch me?

OKC Bombing? Hell I got in on that too, though I was in the Post Office and we were able to walk out. We thought a fully armed B-1 from Tinker had splattered in front of us. The sensation was rather like someone picking up the building, smacking the walls against your ears and dropping you/it about 10 feet. Incredible.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Given that these buildings likely hold hundreds of millions or more in cash at a time, they are mini-Ft. Knoxes.  As such, I am sure the current Fed building here can handle any new uses we come up with.     I have to say, I am surprised that the Feds are willing to share the facility by subleasing space in it but perhaps the current design segregates office space from the cash vault more completely (i.e. like two distinct buildings side by side).

STJR, I think this might be the very reason that we can't use it... Once the layout is known, if the planners can't make easy changes to fit standard transportation practices, then we would have yet another dysfunctional elephant downtown. There are LOTS of things that go into a station that the public doesn't have a clue about.

Example?

Both Union Station and the new Amtrak station have a clear concourse from the front door to the  arrival/departure door, because good terminals NEVER send the crowds through the waiting room.
(Passenger Terminals and Trains by John Droege - 1916)

So we would have to map out the current building, decide which (if any) walls have to come down, or go up, then make a decision.

OCKLAWAHA

[mtraininjax]

Mtrain, per the City records, this building was completed in 1987.  The Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995.  That would take more foresight than I think even the Federal Reserve Bank's economists could muster.

Whatever the dates, I am telling you, as having been on the tour and seen areas most have not, that building in front along the road, can withstand the OK city bomb blast and remain in tact. The folks who work in the building tell you this.

Go on the tour, check it out, look at 10 million dollars in cash, its an amazing thing to see. You seem to have an endless supply of time available, what is one more hour?

[stjr]

Based on the aerial showing some generous parking and undeveloped land around the building, and given the possible "split personality" of the building (based on part of it being available for sublease), I think it may be possible to leave the Federal Reserve in place and still build an Amtrak station behind it or in combo with a new parking deck and office/transportation center tower on the Fed's current east parking lot.

The bus, streetcar, and, while it continues,  $ky-high-way facilities could be in the lot opposite on Water Street.  JTA could build hotel/retail on the lot sitting in the split of the $ky-high-way rails leading from Bay to Riverside and Acosta Bridge and/or between Water and Bay Streets.  All of this would be much more compact convenient, and visible, and also much more connected to Downtown activities and attractions (Riverwalk, T-U Center, office buildings, existing hotels, etc.) and even Riverside (via the via duct) and San Marco (via the Acosta Bridge).

Aerial of buildings: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=bay+street,+jacksonville,+fl&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.223579,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bay+St,+Jacksonville,+Duval,+Florida+32202&t=h&ll=30.327712,-81.671666&spn=0.006603,0.009645&z=17

[stjr]

Mtrain, per the City records, this building was completed in 1987.  The Oklahoma City bombing was in 1995.  That would take more foresight than I think even the Federal Reserve Bank's economists could muster.

Whatever the dates, I am telling you, as having been on the tour and seen areas most have not, that building in front along the road, can withstand the OK city bomb blast and remain in tact. The folks who work in the building tell you this.

Go on the tour, check it out, look at 10 million dollars in cash, its an amazing thing to see. You seem to have an endless supply of time available, what is one more hour?

Mtrain, I didn't say it couldn't withstand a blast (in fact, I inferred from the start it likely could).  I merely pointed out that your timeline was not correct.  No need to get huffy, now.  Take a chill pill, get some rest, and let's start fresh again upon daylight.

[CS Foltz]

If the Fed Bldg is re-barred throughout, that would be even better than a post tensioned structure..........its is just a question of the will to do it! It's too bad MJ does not have a finger in this possibility! I am all for recycling Bldg's since they are allready there and if the Fed Bldg could be used..........why the heck not? Lets try and save another one and make use of what we have now, rather than building anew! Lots less then the $60 Million projected just for phase one! Plus the proposed Transportation Center will ultimately cost how much? Use that money to refurbish and renovate. We had that option with the Old Courhouse and Annex and did not use it...........$350 Million for the new Court House and who is gonna pay for it.......Johnny? Somehow I don't think so!

[JeffreyS]

You know using the Fed building could connect the transportation center with the riverwalk. A very short walkway under the over passes no crosswalks needed. Mass transit directly attached to our best pedestrian feature.

[CS Foltz]

JeffreyS...........looking at that Google Earth picture, it just fell into place! Hopefully someone with some connections into the power circle (tufsu.....here is your chance to shine big guy!) makes perfect sense to me and is much cheaper and has expansion possibitities including up! All we can do,for right now, is start a discussion about it and try to expand out from there!

[Ocklawaha]

Hey why not move the "Convention Center" into the old Fed Building? It's not like it wouldn't hold the crowds! LOL!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ock.......make the Fed Bldg , the new Rail Center,along with the Prime Osburn. Let JTA buy the JEA Bldg by the new Courthouse, which is a steal @ only $11 Million Dollars and lets build a Convention Center on the Ship Yards property! After all of the money that has been wasted there and for $60 Million Dollars more(phase one) we should be able to address all issue's with the Prime Osburn and come up with something really marketable! Not to mention BRT should be able to move all visitors to Hyatt......I mean we can cover all the bases going that route from jobs,coventions,business yada yada! GOB Network could go into overtime sucking the lifes blood out of that picture.......I mean something for everyone here!

[Ocklawaha]

Hell with the mayors $23 Million in downtown toys, we could build a new convention center in "THE WORLDS LARGEST BUTLER BUILDING!"

OCKLAWAHA