Elements of Urbanism: Buckhead & Midtown Atlanta

[thelakelander]

Jax is well on its way to turning into the next conglomeration of Marietta, Sandy Springs, Jonesboro, Snellville, etc.  In other words our current growth patterns makes us resemble an Atlanta with a river and beach but without MARTA and Atlanta's densifying urban core or a smaller consolidated version of Detroit with less DT revitalization success and better weather.

We should be trying to become a better Jacksonville that is a sustainable community built on our history and natural features.  Unfortunately, most of our actions the last few decades show that we are fine having an identity of being an Anyplace USA sunbelt sprawler.

[stjr]

Lake, thanks again for the tour.

I have to parrot Eva Gabor in Green Acres, "...but give me Park Avenue!".  Many of these scenes seem too antiseptic looking and make me long for "older" looking cities of the north.

I understand its hard to pick up vibes from pictures, but a few shots reminded me of your recent Arlington, VA tour, just on a far bigger scale.  I certainly would not wish this exact outcome on Jax.  That's not to say I don't want many of Atlanta's amenities and that Atlanta doesn't have some nice areas, but I am not enthralled with the apparent coldness of some of the streets and high rises' architecture and lack of personality.  I rue the day we replace our sadly lost historic structures with one glass fortress and solid wall after another.  These pictures should serve as motivation to preserve what little we have left as it appears to be all but irreplaceable in this day and age. 

Maybe I am too much of a "traditionalist" but I sure love old architecture a lot more.

Also, Lake, how consistent is the presence of street level retail in these areas?  Can you take care of everyday needs within walking distance?  Didn't see any streetcars either.  Do buses do the trick here?  I know they have Marta but that's for suburban travel, right?

[thelakelander]

Both are served by MARTA, however there are plans for a streetcar system.  As for how they feel at street level, density drops off drastically the farther you move away from Peachtree Street.  As for walkability, Arlington, VA is more pedestrian friendly.  You could get away with not having a car in Midtown but Buckhead still has some filling up to do.

[billy]

You can visit Virginia Highlands, Candler, Grant and Inman Park, East Atlanta, and Decatur/Oakhurst
for a feel of the older neighborhoods.

[Bostech]

I just cant understand,city with 5 million people...and empty streets.Looks like ghost town.Where are  the people?

[Bostech]

Nevermind,one person is hidden behind sign. :-)
That explains.

[stjr]

I just cant understand,city with 5 million people...and empty streets.Looks like ghost town.Where are  the people?

This goes to some of my comments about just how pedestrian and user friendly these "environments" really are. Would the streets of New York, bad weather aside, ever look this desolate in daylight hours on an apparently otherwise nice day?

[Bostech]

NYC does look desolated in bad weather. :-)

[Orlanta]

I just cant understand,city with 5 million people...and empty streets.Looks like ghost town.Where are  the people?

Gee its not that hard to figure out.  Judging by the absence of cars as well as people, I'm guessing that these were taken on a Sunday morning. Not that it ever gets to bustling in Midtown but it's somewhere between bustling and desolate.  

And hey, Rome wasn't built in a day.   Though the Blueprint Midtown has been remarkably successful in attracting new development since it was adopted in 1997, its still very much in its early stages of being realized.    Right now there are still too many "gaps" in the urban fabric and the recession has certainly had a negative impact.  As someone pointed out earlier, it wasn't that long ago that Midtown was a place known for its "colorful" people, prostitutes, and drug dealers.

As for Buckhead, its too far gone with suburban style development to ever be truly walkable except for the area known as the village.

Blueprint Midtown
(http://www.midtownalliance.org/Documents/EX_SUM.pdf)

[Bostech]

Its a still city with 5 million people.I lived in Europe in several cities with population of 200-500K and city streets always had people at any given time.
In US,beside NYC which is bustling 24/7 most cities Ive been are same way.But NYC is too expensive and living spaces are too small and pricey.
In rest of USA,after 6PM there is barely anyone downtown,most people spend time in car and very few out walking.Suburban lifestyle everywhere you go.
Its just not matter of having some streets with urban lifestyle or lined up bars,it is lifestyle choice,and most Americans,like or not,prefer suburbs and car culture.
I said it long time ago,I dont think that will ever change unless some natural disaster or maybe lack of oil FORCES people to live in urban environments like NYC.
Not to mention there are many corporations and politicians who would not like to see people living in urban centers,since makes them less money,just like here in Jax.
Most politicians are not supportive of urban living because lobbyist want them to work for corporations interest not peoples interest.

[thelakelander]

The images were taken on a Sunday morning.  Atlanta is also not a city with 5 million residents.  That's the metropolitan number and that number is spread out across a large area of NW Georgia.

[AaroniusLives]

I lived in Atlanta during their boom, specifically in Buckhead. Here are my thoughts.

Buckhead is a vertical suburb, defined by single use buildings with gated access. It is one of many edge cities in Metro Atlanta, where from afar, it looks like a city, but from up close, it's really just private high-rises centered around a mall. (And it's far from a dump: I make a lot of money and I was "middle class" in Buckhead.)

The part of Midtown that's most interesting is the part not shown in these pictures, and that the preserved, pre-war two-story apartment blocks that line Piedmont Park. While Midtown's scrapers are more mixed-use than those in Buckhead, it's an area you drive to and park to walk around, versus an area you walk to. Still, it's a start!

Atlantic Station, the mixed-use development you photographed, is a mixed bag of success and failure. On the one hand, it's a mixed-use development in Atlanta. On the other, it's more of a glorified mall built over a huge parking deck. And, fugly. Also, can you really have a mixed-use development anchored by an IKEA? Having several thousand cars pile into that lot for stylish, cheap furniture and housewares doesn't exactly make Atlantic Station a great place to walk.

Speaking of, Atlanta IS parking decks. They love them.

Those empty street pictures would be true any day and any time of the week. Atlanta drives.

Those utility poles are everywhere and are ugly.

I understand its hard to pick up vibes from pictures, but a few shots reminded me of your recent Arlington, VA tour, just on a far bigger scale.  I certainly would not wish this exact outcome on Jax.  That's not to say I don't want many of Atlanta's amenities and that Atlanta doesn't have some nice areas, but I am not enthralled with the apparent coldness of some of the streets and high rises' architecture and lack of personality.  I rue the day we replace our sadly lost historic structures with one glass fortress and solid wall after another.  These pictures should serve as motivation to preserve what little we have left as it appears to be all but irreplaceable in this day and age.

To be fair to Arlington, the 1950s-era strip-mall construction replaced with "soulless" development is not really the same as what they've done in Atlanta, which is to replace actual historical buildings with "soulless" development. In addition, Arlington is filled with street life. You should be so lucky to have "soulless" development actually attract "souls" to Jacksonville. Arlington is a massive success, a model for the country in many ways. It may not appeal to you architecturally, but it should appeal to you as a New Urbanist.

You could get away with not having a car in Midtown but Buckhead still has some filling up to do.

No, you really can't. But the fabric for that moment is certainly being sewn.

The images were taken on a Sunday morning.  Atlanta is also not a city with 5 million residents.  That's the metropolitan number and that number is spread out across a large area of NW Georgia.

It has a remarkably low population density. I was astonished at how spread out it is there.

However, Metro Atlanta does have a lot going for it, including:
1. A educated, upwardly mobile population.
2. Lots of diversity (a land-bound island of diversity in the South, y'all.)
3. Great food at every price point, and of a large variety. Fatlanta, indeed. I gained a ton of weight there.
4. Inexpensive to live. My one regret in moving from Atlanta to DC was the astronomical cost increase to live here. I paid $950 a month to rent a 1 bedroom with den on the 32nd floor of a Buckhead highrise. I currently pay $2600 a month to rent a 1 bedroom with "desk nook" English Basement apartment in Georgetown. My quality of urban life is much better here in DC...but I'm not certain if it's THAT much better to warrant the price, and while I could have moved into cheaper digs, I wanted the equivalent of the Buckhead lifestyle in DC, much like I wanted the equivalent of the Boca Raton lifestyle when I moved to Atlanta's Buckhead.
5. Best art museum outside of New York, and that includes DC's National Gallery of Art.
6. Lots of places to find work.
7. Atlanta's quite pretty, actually.
8. Best weather I've ever lived in. 8 months of 70-degree weather, three months of hot...and one month of not-really-cold.
9. Outside of 7-11, whatever store you like to shop at, Atlanta pretty much has it.
10. Piedmont Park. Is. Awesome.

All in all, not a bad place to live. It's not a really URBAN place to live. It's not a place to turn in the car and buy a bike. It's not a place to remotely think about using mass transit as a viable alternative to the car. But, you get a lot of bang for your buck in Metro Atlanta. I totally understand its popularity, and partook of its charms for a few years myself! 

[thelakelander]

To put things in perspective, Jacksonville's urban area is denser than Atlanta's.

[Orlanta]

Its a still city with 5 million people.I lived in Europe in several cities with population of 200-500K and city streets always had people at any given time.
In US,beside NYC which is bustling 24/7 most cities Ive been are same way.But NYC is too expensive and living spaces are too small and pricey.
In rest of USA,after 6PM there is barely anyone downtown,most people spend time in car and very few out walking.Suburban lifestyle everywhere you go.
Its just not matter of having some streets with urban lifestyle or lined up bars,it is lifestyle choice,and most Americans,like or not,prefer suburbs and car culture.
I said it long time ago,I dont think that will ever change unless some natural disaster or maybe lack of oil FORCES people to live in urban environments like NYC.
Not to mention there are many corporations and politicians who would not like to see people living in urban centers,since makes them less money,just like here in Jax.
Most politicians are not supportive of urban living because lobbyist want them to work for corporations interest not peoples interest.

Well we're not talking about any given time.  We're talking specifically Sunday morning.  Every city I've ever been in, including those in Europe were quiet on Sunday morning.

[krazeeboi]

What, no mention of the top-end perimeter? No mention of the Gallaria area? All considered Atlanta, and with their own high rises as well. Charlotte can only dream of getting to the business of Atlanta.

What does Charlotte have to do with this? We're concerned with being the best Charlotte we can be, and we're doing one hell of a job with that. And right now, we're not concerned with developing edge cities that rival our CBD in terms of office space, corporate relocations, amenities, etc. and I hope it stays that way for a long time.